Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

True Costs of a Turbo Miata

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • B00LS
    replied
    Originally posted by kung fu jesus View Post
    I began to realize what I really enjoyed most was driving the car, not modifying it. ...I focused on my driving, tuning the suspension and handling, focusing on my driving lines. I found myself enjoying the HPDEs again.
    Glad you have validated everything I thought coming into the mx-5. It is a momentum car. Trying to make it anything else will cost, money, time, and aggravation. Personally if I want a 0-60 adrenaline rush I pick a different mule from the barn. Of all the things I own, including all the motorcycles, I enjoy the 100% stock NB1 mx-5 the most on Wolf Pen Gap.

    Leave a comment:


  • kung fu jesus
    replied
    Late to the game. Nick's list is accurate. People do it for less, but the car needs a lot of baby sitting. Turbo'd the same car twice, even tried an m45 SC (1.6 '92). You have to be honest with yourself about what you intend to do with the car and what you are willing to spend. You can build up in chunks, but you have to stay ahead of the power in terms of upgrades, or you start breaking stuff. This makes the project more expensive and costs you a lot of time.

    The ECUs have become better and the learning curve is smaller, but if you don't account for tuning, you will just blow it up eventually. To add more power, you also need a really good understanding of how to fix stuff or that, too, will become very expensive very fast. A specialty shop willing to work on your modifications is pretty rare, which leads to another point...documentation. There will be so much you alter or modify, you can forget about things you have done. This makes troubleshooting a bit more difficult.

    I ran up to 15 psi on my 1.6 with a turbo. Around town, the m45 was the most fun, but even it is wonky and needs attention. I began to realize what I really enjoyed most was driving the car, not modifying it. This was especially true for the HPDEs I did. I found myself constantly analyzing any whiff of fouled air, every noise, every nuance to monitor the turbo. At the track, I found my time between sessions spent making sure bolts weren't backing out, checking data logs, looking for broken stuff. I had less time to improve my driving. It wasn't fun anymore.

    So, I dumped all the FI stuff and went back to my puny 1.6. I focused on my driving, tuning the suspension and handling, focusing on my driving lines. I found myself enjoying the HPDEs again. I spent time between sessions talking to people, reflecting on my track time, where I wanted to be faster. I wasn't going to blitz the field, but I could check the oil once or twice a day at the track, and leave the hood close the rest of the time.

    My next goal, for power, is a VVT motor. I *like* that the car is slow and under-powered, it makes me focus on my technique and myself than trying to beat an expensive supercar down the straights. I enjoy the reliability of an N/A motor and if I want a powerful car, I will buy one that came like that from the factory. Kudos to those of you still adding power though. I enjoy seeing the approaches to the builds. :)

    Leave a comment:


  • oldgrayfrog
    replied
    I've had an m45, an mp62, an über charged car and a turbocharged car. For street use, the mp62 (fossil's old car) was dead reliable and ran like stock. You can poke fun at the Fast Forward 's silly fuel cards, but the car ran great. The über charged car was stupid fast, but Corky Bell told me they couldn't get the chargers to last past 25,000 miles, so I'd pass on another of those. For every day driving, the MP62 is as close to having a small v8 under the hood as you'll get for under $7000. The m45 is okay, but you'll be either disappointed and wanting more, or you'll blow your engine trying to make more power, or tracking it. The turbo charged VVT, is in a class by itself. It's not cheap, but I like lifting the hood on my 91' and seeing that MSM motor and turbo. Having a larger turbo is mostly wasted here, as I have no intention of putting in forged internals. A VVT motor with a 2560r turbo is probably about the perfect match, you make plenty of power without worrying about reliability.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rick02R
    replied
    Originally posted by GTOTT97 View Post
    I honestly don't think I would ever go to a track export maybe autocross, how reliable is a street sc setup?
    Then I'd consider a SC. Fossil's MP62 had a better torque curve than my turbo, but lower HP. Over all very close and the FFS Supercharger kit went on in <16 hours start to finish. My DIY turbo was 6 months of fiddling.

    Only reliability issue with with the supercharger was the injector snaps for the aux injectors. Turned out we just needed new ones and all was well for many street miles and 2 track days.

    Leave a comment:


  • harrybeachdog
    replied
    Originally posted by ben91 View Post
    You can swap a VVT 1.8, make about the same power as a standard M45 based SC, and be dramatically more reliable.
    Exactly what I did. From a 96 w/ m45 to an 05 VVT with MS2 and VVTuner. VVT engine just felt more alive and fun.
    .
    .
    Then I turbo'd it. Because 240whp is underrated.

    Leave a comment:


  • 91LudeSiT
    replied
    Originally posted by ben91 View Post
    You can swap a VVT 1.8, make about the same power as a standard M45 based SC, and be dramatically more reliable.
    What about the torque curve? I highly doubt it would be as good. I'm also guessing you could put an M45 of a VVT1.8 and make more power as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • ben91
    replied
    You can swap a VVT 1.8, make about the same power as a standard M45 based SC, and be dramatically more reliable.

    Leave a comment:


  • carnut169
    replied
    I had a gorgeous NA with an early Sebring SC setup. It did not make a huge amount of boost (maybe 5-6lbs) and was running without IC and on a fuel card/ MSD timing retard device. Pretty basic.

    Its was 100% reliable for the street and quite fun- it had been on the car for years prior to my buying it and its still logging miles for the new owner years later.


    If you go for a low boost setup it can be pretty robust.

    Leave a comment:


  • FE3tMX5
    replied
    I ran a base Sebring/JR kit on my daily driver 1.6 for 3-4 years without any issues. Never tracked it, but I did drive as if it were stock and under warranty, no holds barred. The only thing that ever happened was the crank bolt coming loose about 3 yrs after I did the timing belt. How loose? It came off on the interstate, headed to qualifying at Rd. Atlanta of all things. I found the bolt in the under tray and reinstalled it on the side of the road using the OE lug tool. <--There are probably some lessons there. ;) I was completely OK with the power the SC made, probably because I was wrenching and racing cars at the time.

    Leave a comment:


  • GTOTT97
    replied
    I honestly don't think I would ever go to a track export maybe autocross, how reliable is a street sc setup?

    Leave a comment:


  • pogokat
    replied
    Originally posted by 91LudeSiT View Post
    Everybody I know who tried to track a supercharged miata either had reliability problems or went turbo for more power.
    Im not saying this is true for 100% of people, but it's 100% true of me. Of course, having to fix my car at every track event with the sc was an interesting learning experience. Also, the cataclysmic explosion was kind of cool.

    Leave a comment:


  • harrybeachdog
    replied
    Originally posted by NA6R View Post
    it makes for a great rally car :)
    My friend, who picked up your ecu is going to be turbo with 185 street tires, koni yellows and stock springs. At least for the next month. It's gonna be silly fun. Should look into rallycross...

    Alex is spot on the money, m45 + track was the demise of my old engine. And I swapped to turbo because of the torque load the S/C puts on the engine, in addition to whp.

    Nick, awesome chart! I'm trying to follow the poor man's track car column.

    Leave a comment:


  • 91LudeSiT
    replied
    Everybody I know who tried to track a supercharged miata either had reliability problems or went turbo for more power.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rick02R
    replied
    Figure very similar costs for supercharger (possibly more to get 6 rib pulleys, good tension-er and intercooler / water / meth injection). Based on experience with Fossil's and another that I almost bought, I'd avoid anything less than an MP62 and would strongly prefer an inter-cooled hotside setup for any real track use.

    Leave a comment:


  • GTOTT97
    replied
    I would be interested to see this same kind of chart done for super charging, I would think it'd be about the same perhaps a little cheaper

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X