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Thread: A wild GTX appears

  1. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by FE3tMX5 View Post
    Nice work on the tight radius job! You need to clean that aluminized exhaust bend down to raw steel and that will improve your weld dramatically. Also preheat the work piece with a torch. Try that stuff out on some scrap of the same material and see if helps.

    I highly recommend a chinese plasma cutter for cutting metal- especially the thicker stuff. For $175, it won't take long for it to pay for itself in time/grief saved. If you don't, then please use a good filtered respirator when using cutoff wheels because they don't have to list the ingredients.
    For some reason, I didn't think about the aluminized part messing with the welds. Shows how much of a noob I am still. Well, the best way to learn is to just try.

    A plasma cutter is on my list, but sadly down low on the list. Currently, I am rocking one of those cheap HF bandsaws with a homemade stand. I do need to order a new respirator as my current one was old and the band finally broke. Never really thought about the flap disk or cutoff disk wheel having nasty crap in them. Looks like a new respirator just moved to the top of my list.


    Thanks for the help Rob, You and Andrew give me hope that one day I can become a decent fabricator.
    1988 323 GTX--- New DD, cause I am that crazy
    2008 Mazdaspeed 3::SOLD ----- 1991 BRG NA8 Swap, Turbo::SOLD

  2. #342
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    Nice job man! I'm no welder, grinder, or even a dude who haphazardly throws together metal, so you are already doing better than I am!

  3. #343
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    Bandsaw is far better than cutting all that metal with a cutting disk and subjecting yourself to the debris. I have the little HF metal cutting baby bandsaw - which is fine for the thinner steel and aluminum. But once the thickness goes up it becomes painful. What's worse is hardened metal. I had a forged gas pipe I was cutting and I literally left the saw running on and let the weight do the cutting. I'd just walk over and put some oil on it to keep the blade cool. I think it took an hour to cut through.

    My advice from here on out is to clean all your weld pieces thoroughly so you can eliminate that from your "why does my weld suck" list. MIG isn't nearly as picky as TIG, but once I started playing with the TIG, I realized that it does in fact impact the quality. A stiff wire wheel disk on a grinder makes for a good metal cleaning tool IMO.

  4. #344
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    I got one of these tables a few years ago to keep me from crawling around on the ground. https://www.harborfreight.com/adjust...ble-61369.html
    1991 with Kenne Bell Supercharged 5.0 Ford conversion/ 382whp/376tq

  5. #345
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    Well I was having issues with V1 of Exhaust Turbine exit, or as I am more use to calling them 02 housing.

    So the 2.5 pipe was a little to big to fit in the gap, mixed with a little oversized on the flange and just wasn't sealing up nicely(aka I suck at welding )

    So started on V2.

    Few changes:
    Using 2.25 pipe that will step up to 2.5, and then that will tie into my 3" planned exhaust.
    Pie Cuts cause I couldn't find anything with a tight enough CLR


    Onto photos, which are now on Flickr, and I'll upload older photos at some point.

    First I made a jig, so I could cut each side the same. The goal was for a 20 degree cut, but now I know if I line up side A with another Side A they would be the same angle, or stupidly close, and keep from getting to odd oval shapes.

    Pie Cut Jig by b c, on Flickr

    Handful of my cuts. I cut more so I could pick the different length to get my different shapes, and give me spares to practice welding the tight areas.
    Pie Cuts by b c, on Flickr

    First piece in the flange to make sure it fit, and with some guiding from a BFH, it fit.

    Flange by b c, on Flickr
    Testing my planned order.

    Test Bend by b c, on Flickr

    More planning

    Test Bend with Flange by b c, on Flickr

    I don't have photos but I tried to put it all in the car as a test. It's close, but doesn't fit like I wanted. It's close enough that once I get it bolted in, I can use the BFH to give a few taps and gain the little extra space I need between the AC and exhaust. But overall I think right now this approach will work.

    After I get it all welded up, I'll need to use my small piping to make the wastegate piping and feeding that into where the 2.25 steps up to the 2.5. Then get a new 2.5 v-band clamp. This way I can use the clamp like the stock setup did, and allow the lower DP to be released from the upper DP. This way I don't have remove the A/C from the motor if I need to remove the DP to gain clearance for anything. Instead I can drop just the lower DP only.
    1988 323 GTX--- New DD, cause I am that crazy
    2008 Mazdaspeed 3::SOLD ----- 1991 BRG NA8 Swap, Turbo::SOLD

  6. #346
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    So I went out to do some test welding on some spare parts but it came out better then I figured. Oh and it's even tighter then the first planed one. So I think I may just call these "final" at least for this section.

    Now on to my bad welding

    Everything on the left was the first pass and everything on the right was my second pass. I started with a 2/4 amp setting and stepped up to 3/4 for the second pass and finishing up the first side. Like I said this started as practice. Mostly I was worried that with the test pieces I would get burn through as the smallest section was really little. I did get a little section that burnt through when doing the first two pieces; but when I did the three piece I was able to fill in the small area. This was a little bit of a PITA as I was getting a lot of heat. I had to keep letting the piece cool and also dipping it in a bucket of water. Welds aren't the best looking but seems to have no leaks. At least when tested with a light long the welds. I'll plan to try pressure test it before sealing it to the flange.

    Well onto photos.

    Again Left was first pass, right was second set.

    Test welding 01 by b c, on Flickr

    Test welding 02 by b c, on Flickr

    Test welding 03 by b c, on Flickr

    Test Welding 04 by b c, on Flickr

    I forgot to get some photos after some cleaning with the flap disk. I'll try and get a photo of that later.

    Here is a photo showing the fitment on the car. You can see it just almost fits. I maybe able to slide the upper section(the one in the flange) a little more towards the flange in the end.

    Test Fitting by b c, on Flickr

    As you can see it's just touching the AC compressor. I plan to wrap the piping in heat wrapping to keep the heat down, so I'll need to clearance for that and just clearance reasons. I am hoping that a little tap tap with the #2 hammer, I can gain what space I need.
    1988 323 GTX--- New DD, cause I am that crazy
    2008 Mazdaspeed 3::SOLD ----- 1991 BRG NA8 Swap, Turbo::SOLD

  7. #347
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    You need A LOT more practice. It looks almost like you forgot to turn the shielding gas on. I would suggest just running several beads of weld on that material until you and your welder get "dialed in", and then work up to welding stuff together. It takes time and practice, but I know you can get it done.
    1991 with Kenne Bell Supercharged 5.0 Ford conversion/ 382whp/376tq

  8. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbone heller View Post
    You need A LOT more practice. It looks almost like you forgot to turn the shielding gas on. I would suggest just running several beads of weld on that material until you and your welder get "dialed in", and then work up to welding stuff together. It takes time and practice, but I know you can get it done.
    That is an understatement.

    More photos after a little bit of grinding.

    More Cleaning by b c, on Flickr

    Start of cleaing up by b c, on Flickr
    1988 323 GTX--- New DD, cause I am that crazy
    2008 Mazdaspeed 3::SOLD ----- 1991 BRG NA8 Swap, Turbo::SOLD

  9. #349
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    So I got some time in the garage last night so some more.

    First a little practice, following some tips I got. Still not amazing but I think an improvement from last time.

    Practice 2 by b c, on Flickr

    Practice by b c, on Flickr

    Still, need way more hours welding but overall, I am noticing I can start to see and "feel" the differences. Maybe by the time I am done with this exhaust I can lay a half decent bead

    Progress on the real part, I was having issues getting a good angle on most of it, so the beads turned out meh.

    Progress by b c, on Flickr

    Progress 2 by b c, on Flickr

    Mocked up on the flange, testing fitment

    Mock-up by b c, on Flickr

    As you can see I need to make a little room on the flange.

    Clearance needed by b c, on Flickr

    Overall, I had some issues with getting a nice bead on the inner section just due to it being a tight space. I had to lay two passes on the inner section, cause at one point I laid a bead just to the edge of the seam =/.

    It's not going to win any awards but should hold.
    1988 323 GTX--- New DD, cause I am that crazy
    2008 Mazdaspeed 3::SOLD ----- 1991 BRG NA8 Swap, Turbo::SOLD

  10. #350
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    If your welder has a wire speed adjustment I would try slowing the feed down a bit. If that controls the heat too good as it could come down a touch as well. Overall though a pretty good start for thin metal like that. If you want to tack it and bring it to Suwanee I can TIG it for you. I'm out of practice as well but I'll get back in gear with some test pieces.
    David Luney - Suwanee GA
    miatastuff@bellsouth.net
    2004 RX-8, 2005 MCS, 08 Red GT, 1992 Spec Miata and a parts car or two.

  11. #351
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    Here's my thoughts based on my experiences, not education.

    I'd remove all of the aluminized coat on those pieces. Even MIG is susceptible to contamination and your shielding gas can't help when it's not shielding the metal that's under the coating. I highlight your shielding gas edges in blue- so you need to have your metal clean up to at least those lines. You can see the axial streaks of the aluminizing run through the shielding gas edges and into your weld. That should help. You may also need more heat given the stacked look of the weld bead AND the lack of transition at the edge. Some of that has to do with the aluminizing. You also need to practice a welding motion. Trying looping instead of running a straight line. When moving to a motion like this you don't want to increase your heat because you'll be moving slower and thus spending more time in an area and raising the base metal temp (increasing the likelihood of burn through).

    Screen Shot 2017-08-28 at 9.52.21 AM.jpg

    motion example

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4RrDeUKcH4&t=73s

    You can also use a pulse on/off technique since the exhaust is not structurally critical. This guy looks like he's welding right through the aluminized surface (after I preached about raw metal)- perhaps that's from the high heat? When I do this, I try to lay down the next "dime" before the last has lost all it's red but had enough time to cool.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JohBHzhOyPg&t=1s

  12. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by FE3tMX5 View Post
    Here's my thoughts based on my experiences, not education.

    I'd remove all of the aluminized coat on those pieces. Even MIG is susceptible to contamination and your shielding gas can't help when it's not shielding the metal that's under the coating. I highlight your shielding gas edges in blue- so you need to have your metal clean up to at least those lines. You can see the axial streaks of the aluminizing run through the shielding gas edges and into your weld. That should help. You may also need more heat given the stacked look of the weld bead AND the lack of transition at the edge. Some of that has to do with the aluminizing. You also need to practice a welding motion. Trying looping instead of running a straight line. When moving to a motion like this you don't want to increase your heat because you'll be moving slower and thus spending more time in an area and raising the base metal temp (increasing the likelihood of burn through).

    Screen Shot 2017-08-28 at 9.52.21 AM.jpg

    motion example

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4RrDeUKcH4&t=73s

    You can also use a pulse on/off technique since the exhaust is not structurally critical. This guy looks like he's welding right through the aluminized surface (after I preached about raw metal)- perhaps that's from the high heat? When I do this, I try to lay down the next "dime" before the last has lost all it's red but had enough time to cool.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JohBHzhOyPg&t=1s
    For these passes, I had lowered my heat sum and was doing a kinda small side to side motion, like a little zig zag.

    Fun you mentioned the loops and lower heat. I was watching a video Friday, where a guy was giving the advice of lowering setting down the recommended one to two steps down, so one is at a lower heat. Then do "e" or "o" shape movements. Which sounds very similar to what you are saying. Sadly I just haven't gotten time to go practice more.

    I tried to remove the aluminum, but not to the size you are talking. So thank you, don't know why I didn't think about how the cleaner the shielding gas area is, the better it can shield.

    I need to keep watching some of the Welding tips and tricks videos. I have seen a few of his here and there.

    Thank you for all your help. I think I mentioned this on another forum, but since the exhaust isn't structural this whole project is one big welding "class" for me. So any advice, feedback or tips are always welcome. Hopefully, others can learn from my mistakes and also be empowered to learn new skills too.
    1988 323 GTX--- New DD, cause I am that crazy
    2008 Mazdaspeed 3::SOLD ----- 1991 BRG NA8 Swap, Turbo::SOLD

  13. #353
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    Agree- practice is what it takes. I feel like I spend most of time relearning every time I set out to weld something. fwiw- I have the same kind of welds on my exhaust and it has yet to fall off. I am all-too-familiar with your biggest challenge: time. You have X amount of time which you can either get something done on the car or practice so you can get something done on the car next time.

  14. #354
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    Small update: THings have been happening.

    GTX DownPipe_01 by b c, on Flickr

    GTX Downpipe_02 by b c, on Flickr

    I think there is some room for the exhaust now And that is only the 2.5 section vs the stock. It steps up to 3" shortly after this flange.

    Oh, the rear axle part is a PITA. Here is a tiny part to how it went over the rear subframe.

    GTX Axle Back 01 by b c, on Flickr


    I am going to be pulling the rest of it off the car so I can finalize the welds and fill in any other areas were the piping doesn't line up well. *cough* like that rear axle part . So I'll get more photos of it then.

    Over all I have the whole thing mine the wastegate pipeing all tacked. So decent progress and should have the Cat back section done soon. It's really just finish welds, add hangers and paint .

    Slowly it's turning into a real thing rather then just pieces of metal on my garage floor.
    1988 323 GTX--- New DD, cause I am that crazy
    2008 Mazdaspeed 3::SOLD ----- 1991 BRG NA8 Swap, Turbo::SOLD

  15. #355
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    Not the best photo but I was able to slip out into the garage randomly today and weld for a few minutes at a time. Aka I'd take out the trash, then weld, then go back to cleaning the house But I made some progress and I feel like i am getting better. I realized I was welding too low of a setting on the axle back part the other day

    GTX Cat back 01 by b c, on Flickr

    GTX cat back 02 by b c, on Flickr

    Current task is to finish grind down my welds and fill in little holes. Then put it all back in, make the hangers now that it's all moved from welding. Then paint it all with a black anti rust high heat paint.
    Last edited by wildfire0310; 12-09-2017 at 10:37 PM.
    1988 323 GTX--- New DD, cause I am that crazy
    2008 Mazdaspeed 3::SOLD ----- 1991 BRG NA8 Swap, Turbo::SOLD

  16. #356
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    I didn't realize you were going all out and doing V-bands. Be sure to check them for flatness. I screwed up the first one I installed by running too long of a bead on one side, thus too much heat and warping it. I am now revisiting that to fix the world's largest exhaust leak (just imagine what that does to my WBO2 readings).



    yeah, I suck patience could've avoided that- but such is the rush garage time, right?

  17. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by FE3tMX5 View Post
    I didn't realize you were going all out and doing V-bands. Be sure to check them for flatness. I screwed up the first one I installed by running too long of a bead on one side, thus too much heat and warping it. I am now revisiting that to fix the world's largest exhaust leak (just imagine what that does to my WBO2 readings).



    yeah, I suck patience could've avoided that- but such is the rush garage time, right?
    Yea it was a little more out of the box for them, but the exhaust that was on the GTX the flanges had rusted shut and were a PITA to get off. I had to cut parts of the exhaust to remove it; therefore I wanted something easy for the future, so SS V-bands .

    Right now I put the whole system back on the car and are making the hangers. Then I'll be dropping the whole system again to do a final clean up, check for flatness , then paint. Hopefully between being garage kept and painted, this exhaust should last me 10 years.
    1988 323 GTX--- New DD, cause I am that crazy
    2008 Mazdaspeed 3::SOLD ----- 1991 BRG NA8 Swap, Turbo::SOLD

  18. #358
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    Latest update,

    Since the last post:
    -Put on the hangers for the rear section
    -"finished" the turbo dump
    -then pressure tested the pieces only to find how bad some of my welds were. Cool part is the later welds where much better so proof I am getting better.
    -Reweld or "patched" the leaks
    -Painted the rear section

    So the big question is what is left
    -Wrap the rear bend section as that get near the car body and fuel tank so I want to just be extra careful. Should be fine but I have the wrap so better save then sorry.
    - Redo the whole turbo outlet section. I keep trying to make it air tight and just was failing over and over. So I am taking the tack I learned from work, and starting again. I can keep trying to fix something over and over or just redo it again, and learn from my mistakes. Also most likely going to make something better too.

    So I have already made a jig based off the non-air tight v2, and going to go at it again. This time I am going to weld the two pipe sections first and pressure test them. Once they are air tight, then I'll weld them to the flanges. Also this time I went and bought a hole saw size for the wastegate piping. The original design I was welding the pipe to the face of the flange, but was running into issues. Where as the main pipe I had inset that, and was able to seal that piping more easily. So my goal will be to inset both so I can seal the pipe to the flange internal rather then via the external welds. Then just make sure I give myself room for the gun where the merge, as that was another issues area.


    On to the photos

    Mostly Full exhaust, WIP by b c, on Flickr

    Mostly Full exhaust 2 WIP by b c, on Flickr

    Redo of the Turbo Outlet by b c, on Flickr

    Note, that I was test to see if I could do the wastegate piping and still get a full sized socket on that lower bolt, but have already realized that isn't going to happen. So I will be putting wrench on there to make sure I give myself clearance to install the thing
    1988 323 GTX--- New DD, cause I am that crazy
    2008 Mazdaspeed 3::SOLD ----- 1991 BRG NA8 Swap, Turbo::SOLD

  19. #359
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    Small update, kinda

    After some talking with some guys on the Club Protege forums and more research I am have changed the turbo outlet system a little. Rather then trying to do a full divided setup that really needs 40 inches of piping before merger which I won't easily be able to do, I am going to do a bellmouth with a divider. From my research it seems to be middle point between true bellmouths and true divided. By having a small divider, it keeps the turbine exhaust gases from exiting the turbine and then filling into the "low pressure" area right in front of the turbine. Yet since externally it's still a bellmouth, it allows for easier packaging.

    On the vj14 tiny turbo this is still kinda overkill, but I have been eyeing the BNR hybrid gt28 for the future.
    1988 323 GTX--- New DD, cause I am that crazy
    2008 Mazdaspeed 3::SOLD ----- 1991 BRG NA8 Swap, Turbo::SOLD

  20. #360
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    This is coming along so nicely! Congrats on the leveling up of the welding skill too!
    '00 Silver Miata

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