Need Serious Alignment Help

[Dr.Drew]

Got new tires/alignment yesterday and something is seriously wrong. First off the car feels way too loose. But I can look past that for the moment.

The scary problem is this: When I left the shop the steering wheel was very straight, however the more I've driven it the less straight it is. After about 75 miles of driving it's now about 45 degrees to the right (right hand down). I havent noticed any vibration or anything but as I drove home I watched it slowly turn a few degrees. It also pulls very slightly to the left now.

I'm taking it back in the morning. Here's my results sheet, if anyone can offer some hints or advice I would really appreciate it.

http://www.mx5atlanta.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=82&pictureid=896

[Stealth97]

your caster is off, that would explain the pulling, but geez those certainly arent performance specs.

[Dr.Drew]

Thanks, any recommendations for tomorrow? Also, any plausible explanations for the steering wheel going out of whack?

[Beastinthebushes]

If it's pulling to the left. I recommend you head on over to Atlanta motor speedway and drive around that bad boy.

[lazybones]

The toe is what causes the steering wheel to be off center. That's all I know.

[MeFryRice]

I'd check the tie rod bolts in the front to ensure he tightened them up.

[slidin_miata]

The toe on the rear is twice as bad as when you went in there (according to the read out) not to mention that the way they set it up it is "dog tailing" which means the car isnt driving straight, it is actually driving diagonally to the road, rather than parallel (how it should be) so go to a DIFFERENT place on thursday because it is almost impossible for the car to have gotten worse to do an alignment, unless they messed it up on purpose (it happens). thats all i can really tell you without driving the car. hope it all helped

oh and im a 3rd year automotive engineering student at Chattahoochee High School, i am also trained by HUNTER on the alignment machine/ set up we have from them. it was a 6 week course for 2 hours a day. so thats how i gained all that knowledge, its not just made up BS to throw you off.
hope i helped.
Pat

[Dr.Drew]

Thanks Pat, I'm still green about some of this stuff and it will be nice to have some specifics I can point out.

The only thing the guy at the shop really said was "because the car is lowered it won't go into factory specs."

[Beastinthebushes]

I do say, well done, Pat!

[Dr.Drew]

Pat, (or anyone) any chance you could give me some numbers to shoot for? Maybe some that will work on a lowered car?

I don't want track aggressive but I want it to be pretty tight.

[miatastuff]

If they didn't snug/torque the ecentrics then you could have the caster and toe go out of spec. This would explain a toe change that caused the steering wheel aligment to go out. Also you mentioned new tires. hopefully the first step in the alignment was to set the tire pressures. If they didn't and the tire mounting guys didn't you may have a high tire pressures that can cause a loose feeling nomatter what the alignment is set to.

PS if you want it aligned right, make the drive to Gran Turismo East off I-85 in Chamblee. Worth the drive and time.

[wildfire0310]

first off. what the f**k did the guy do. How does someone not fix your front caster. He take it from being normal to out of spec.

second here are two old school miata alignments

Icehawk settings
Front

Caster: Maximum
Camber: -1.5°
Toe out 1/16" per side

Rear

Caster not applicable, there is no adjustment possible
Camber: -2°
Toe in 1/16" per side

Lanny's settings which are more aggressive then the icehawk
Rear Toe: 1/32 inch (0°4.5' or 0.075°) IN per side Camber: -1.75 degrees Front Camber: -1.2 degrees Caster: 5.0 degrees Toe: 1/32 inch IN per side

BTW both pulled from good old M.net.

[slidin_miata]

Thanks Pat, I'm still green about some of this stuff and it will be nice to have some specifics I can point out.

The only thing the guy at the shop really said was "because the car is lowered it won't go into factory specs."

No problem, and that is true, it will NOT go into factory specs, but you can get a LOT closer than they got.

I do say, well done, Pat!

thank you sir


PS if you want it aligned right, make the drive to Gran Turismo East off I-85 in Chamblee. Worth the drive and time.

THIS ^^^

[Dr.Drew]

Last questions, will a lowered car go into those specs?

Also, on camber and caster are those totals for both wheels?

Finally, on the toe, I noticed they give specs in " but the machine does it in degrees. I suck at math, does anyone know the conversion formula?

Thanks again for all the info, I feel much more prepared now.

[wildfire0310]

Last questions, will a lowered car go into those specs?

Also, on camber and caster are those totals for both wheels?

Finally, on the toe, I noticed they give specs in " but the machine does it in degrees. I suck at math, does anyone know the conversion formula?

Thanks again for all the info, I feel much more prepared now.

Those are per side. and I don't have the formula. But remember those are more race like spec.

[Stealth97]

I'm lowered and I run Lanny specs. Tires don't last long especially in the rear but the thing grips like crazy.

[iscariot]

Good Alignment - MX5 Miata Atlanta Owners Club

I'd recommend those guys after my experience with 'em.

[tbone heller]

If they didn't snug/torque the ecentrics then you could have the caster and toe go out of spec. This would explain a toe change that caused the steering wheel aligment to go out. Also you mentioned new tires. hopefully the first step in the alignment was to set the tire pressures. If they didn't and the tire mounting guys didn't you may have a high tire pressures that can cause a loose feeling nomatter what the alignment is set to.

PS if you want it aligned right, make the drive to Gran Turismo East off I-85 in Chamblee. Worth the drive and time.

Alignments are one thing that I know a lot about. I have been doing them for the past 27 years on everything from AC Cobras to Yugos.
I would have to agree about the loose eccentric bolt. According to your printout, your car should have driven fairly well when it came off of the alignment machine, that's if everything was actually tight. I would have liked to see the caster numbers be more equal, but they are not that far apart. If it were mine, I would have set the the total toe to 0 or close to it. A lot of shops make the printout before they tighten everything down so that their adjustments "look" to be in spec.

[Dr.Drew]

This is a pretty well trusted shop. I'm good friends with the guys there and they've always done great work. I'm actually there now and I'm going to see if they can get it to spec this time but if not I've got an alternative.

So we'll see.

[Beastinthebushes]

I really need an alignment on my car as my rear driver side tire is worn down and the others are fine. I just don't want to fork up the money for an alignment on stock boring suspension. Id rather get my coilovers then pay for it. But there is no telling when that is gonna happen.

[Dr.Drew]

So here's what the shop just told me, "because this car is lowered it won't go into those specs and nothing is loose."

He then went on to explain that the washers on the adjustment bolts will only take it so far and the specs I gave them (lannys) are too far.

They want me to leave it with them and try again but he said it probably just won't go.

[Beastinthebushes]

Bummer, so if that doesn't work, are you gonna take it to GTE?

[Dr.Drew]

Well they just changed their mind and said they can do it so I'm gonna let them try. If it's wrong after this I've got a forum guy who can do it at his shop.

[Beastinthebushes]

Rock on, good luck dude!

[Dr.Drew]

Just to close out the thread. Went back and they initially acted like they wouldn't do it. But the shop owner is a pretty good friend so he let me have some alone time with the machine ;)

Found the hi res setting and put it in hundredths and then switched Toe to inches. Once I had her on the rack she put up a fight but I was able to get everything well within specs. The only real issue was getting the toe on the front.

So while I had to do most of the work myself I got some free redline.

Thanks again for everyones help.

[wildfire0310]

Just to close out the thread. Went back and they initially acted like they wouldn't do it. But the shop owner is a pretty good friend so he let me have some alone time with the machine ;)

Found the hi res setting and put it in hundredths and then switched Toe to inches. Once I had her on the rack she put up a fight but I was able to get everything well within specs. The only real issue was getting the toe on the front.

So while I had to do most of the work myself I got some free redline.

Thanks again for everyones help.


Nice. Glad to hear it worked out for you. I pisses my off the old manager from the NTB I worked at quit. I would love to be able to get my car on a machine and dial it in myself. After working at a tire place, 95% of the employees don't care.

[Dr.Drew]

Well they honestly did try. Two guys gave it their best but just couldn't get it. Don't know why I was able to pull it off but it worked, guess when it's your car you care just enough to make it happen.

But to be fair it too me about an hour and a half.

[MeFryRice]

For your first time doing an alignment and what you were working with, an hour and a half isn't terrible. Glad to hear you were able to fix it and you also learned something new. I'll be doing the alignment on the Subie tomorrow after work and LB's on Saturday.

[Dr.Drew]

Steve, does your shop allow visitors? It would be cool to come by one day and watch you do one, maybe learn some tricks.

[MeFryRice]

I'll shoot you a text.