I got a question?

[wonton]

i have heard many things about ground control coil overs! good and bad stuff! i really dont car about what the ride quality is! im looking for a company that produces quality and cheap coilovers, because im not made of money!

[simontibbett]

Ground Control is good stuff...

Buy eBays, don't listen to the haters who will post below me.

[wonton]

what do i look for! do i look for the actual coil over the the ones that slide over struts! like i said i dont care about ride comfort! if i cared about that i would go buy a luxury car!

[simontibbett]

The ones that slide over the shocks are cheapest. Also called adjustable spring perches if you want to be technical. If you want eBay's type in Miata coilover lol, they are like $50-60 usually.

Ground Controls are like $350-400.

You can put the springs off Ground Controls on eBay perches, and play with rates, do you just want to be lowered?

[wonton]

lowered with handling!

[simontibbett]

Why not just buy springs?

[wonton]

because, im gonna be buying the tuckin 99 fender flares, and im gonna be running 15x9 inch wheels! and i want to be able to fill up most of the arch, the flares arch are higher than the stock arch! springs will only lower me so much!

[simontibbett]

Cut them lol.

Well if I was you and wanted to spend little I'd buy eBay coilovers, but install them right you will have to fab some stuff for them to be on correctly they are all generic.

If not that buy some Ground Controls, can't go wrong there.

[wonton]

ill probably do ground controls! if you look in the post about the wheels u just posted you can see the flares im talking about! the only diff is i want to run 15x9's, the miata has 16x9's in front and 16x10's in the rear!

[RotorNutFD3S]

Man you change your mind so much it's making my head spin. :lol:

I guess I'm going to play the "hater" role here and caution you against considering eBay coilovers... But I won't stoop so low as to tell you not to listen to other's input. Opinions open up choices.

[wonton]

i have never been to fond of ebay brand stuff! i was considering ground control! i heard they are pretty decent! it just doesnt ride smooth! i heard there very stiff! i dont mine that!

[simontibbett]

Why do you sell so much?!?! They are only as smooth as you make them! They are used largely in road racing! So they must be good right?!

[wonton]

im not saying that ebay brand coil overs are bad! its just i have bought ebay brand stuff before and it turned out to be crap!

[ben91]

What shocks are you (planning on) running?

[wonton]

bilstein, kyb, agx, deff not stock!

[nickt93]

+1 for Ground Controls! I have them on my Miata and CRX and have had no problems. My car rides pretty comfortably too (even with the all metal ultrashields). Next time you are in the neighborhood stop by and I'll give you a ride...I think you'll like the setup.

Whether or not the ride is firm or harsh will depend on the spring rate you choose and the shock setup. KYBs are a popular choice given their attractive price (that's whats on my car), but the Koni is popular too.

[Roadster]

I've heard a lot of people whine about Megans, but I'm going to try them anyway, rather than trying to cobble together my own coilovers and having no idea what spring rate would really be best. From what I've seen the Megans are $800-ish.

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

The way I look at it, for lower cost performance there are two main ways, well three but the third is the keep an eye out for a bargain in classifieds that you just have to have (happened to me).

1. Put your own setup together. Look out for some Koni's or Bilstein's, pick up some ebay coilovers and use the sleeves. Then check out autocross forums for the used coilover springs. The ebay coilover sleeves and used coilover springs works out much cheaper. Heck, if you just buy the eibach coilover springs straight from summit racing brand new it still works out cheaper than ground controls. Of course you could just go for normal springs like the Flyin Miata ones. I can give you a ride some time, I have those with Bilstein HD's. Ideally the springs would be a bit stiffer.

2. Buy an all in one ready made coilover that's a straight swap, ala Megan's. I know there is some snobbishness towards but I had them on the Suby, loved them. Know countless other people that've had them, loved them. They are a seriously good value coilover. Even the guys at Gran Turismo East said they were a good unit. I've never heard of a set leaking yet either, which can't be said of all the Tein sets out there. They are really stiff though.

[MoD_Scotty]

The Megan coilovers are awesome. A few friends of mine have had them on their 240s and they've never had problems. I've used several other Megan products and had nothing but success. AFAIK, the Megan coilovers are in fact the same exact thing as A'PEXi. Same exact unit, just with a different sticker. If I was going to go the coilover route, I wouldn't hesitate to use Megans.

[simontibbett]

With coilovers, you can buy different rates if you didn't pick up on people saying that. It's easy to tell your spring rates too, as it says the rate on the spring.

[Doppelgänger]

The perch/sleeve isn't what makes the ride quality bad. It all comes down to matching proper dampeners with proper spring rates. If you toss ANY perch/sleeve/spring on crappy shock, the ride will be terrible...which is what a lot of "cheap" people do and then complain about it. Same goes for putting good shocks on stock springs/crappy springs. If you want to drop some cost, do what has been said and use the eGay perch/sleeve (throw out the springs that come with it) and buy some 2.5" springs with rates that work well with your choice of shocks. Buying custom rate 2.5" springs isn't all that expensive actually.

Here is a set-up that is budge minded and should work rather well.

Ebay coil over kit = $50

Some used Bilstein shocks from any Miata (r-pkg from the NA and "sport/hard-s/Mazdaspeed Miatas all had Bilstein shocks) depending on how long you wait for used ones to come up $200-$300 for a complete set and probably a bit more from the MSM stuff. I've seen complete sets of the NA Bilstein shocks for $350 shipped NEW on ebay.

NB tophats = $30-$60

2.5" Springs can be had through many places, but I found this site selling them for ~$80 a pair with springs rates anywhere from 6k to 14k (8kf and 6kr wouldn't be bad on Bilsteins)
http://www.shutokoengineering.com/Megan-Racing-REPLACEMENT-SPRINGS-62-180-12KG-p/mr-6218012.htm

So you're looking between $550 and $700 for something like that. YRMV

I've never been a fan of the KYB/Tokiko shocks...they always feel too soft for me. The Koni yellows are awesome shocks for $400/set new.

[wonton]

i look into all of these options! so we got ( meagan racing, ebay sleeves w/ better springs, & ground control ) is there any others and when it comes time for me is there anybody that can help me with the finding what i actually need and the install!

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

Summitracing has the coilover springs for $60 a pair I think ;)

I should have said that too, it's all about matching the right spring and the right shock to make a good feeling set up.

[wonton]

so i can use the ebay coilover sleeves, and go buy another set of coilover spings that are stiffer! if i do that what kg spring do i need to run!

[simontibbett]

Depends what you want to do.

[wonton]

taking turns faster! i want a solid ride!

[simontibbett]

Well if you want a good handling car you need more then just shocks and springs. As for rates, not sure what a good street rate is.

[wonton]

i know im gonna need more than that! im upgrading sway bars, im getting a master bushing set, i already have the frame rail stiffeners, and the roll bar i have stiffened up the rear of my car and im also gonna be getting front and rear strut tower bars!

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

I'ld find the best deal you can on struts and then pick the best springs to go with them.

[wonton]

so first look for struts! then work on getting the sleeves and the proper springs for the app?

[simontibbett]

Yeah, just call Koni, tell them what you want, and ask what rates would be best for that setup and which of their shocks.

[wonton]

cool!

[MeFryRice]

Before I made the final decision to run coilovers, I had plans to run H&R Springs/Koni struts with the adjustable perches. The contact I know within Koni actually runs in Spec Miata Class and we talked for a good 45 mins at SEMA this year. Very knowledgeable guy.

[wonton]

im just confused on how it all works, i know how regular shocks and spings work and i know how coil over works! buy as far a diy coilovers im at loss!

[MeFryRice]

What are you confused about?

[wonton]

with the numbers! how do i find out what spring rate i need and how to put them together!

[MeFryRice]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe the eBay coilovers give details regarding their spring rates or are you going for the GC's?

[wonton]

im probly going with GC's. alot of people are saying good things about the perches from the ebay set up! but i still dont trust ebay brand stuff!

[simontibbett]

The Ebay's I buy have the rates on the spring.

As far as GC's they def. do.

To install it's just like putting springs on a shock, VERY easy.

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

Sean (right?)

Pick up the ebay coilovers that cost about $45. Don't bother with the springs with no rates. Just dump them/save them for something else. Then head over to Ground Control. Email them, find out what spring rates/length they reccomend. Or even email fatcatmotorsports over on m.net.

Then go to summitracing, look up the eibach spring with matching rates/length and order them for $60/pair. The ground control kit comprises of:

2 front coilover springs (summit racing $60)
2 rear coilover springs (summit racing $60)
4 perches (ebay $45)
$440 shipped ($180-200)

You won't have the same support but the support isn't worth and extra $200 for me when you can get the same info from locals.

[simontibbett]

Exactly.

:Cough: why did I get bashed for wanting to do this? :Cough: ;)

[jesseealexander]

go with koni shocks or even tokico adjustables. as far as springs go, ~450/250 should be a good mix between street and track setups.

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

I think people thought you were just going all out ebay Simon. Buying the springs with no rates and throwing them on stock shocks.

Koni's are definitely a top choice for shocks. I really like the Bilstein HD's I picked up, but who wouldn't for $120 new with bump stops? They lack the adjustability but I'm not a huge fan of adjustability over well matched springs/struts.

That's another thing. Look into some fatcatmotorsport bumpstops. Also, the NB rear strut mounts give you more suspension travel. I would have gone for some of those if I was willing to wait longer before putting my setup on the car.

[simontibbett]

I don't have stock shocks, I have AGX, which are pretty good for a light setup. I want to upgrade to Konis for sure. As for using the eBay springs, I have before lol, many times and on friends cars.

But not going off topic.

450 sounds pretty good for a street setup, you can always change it over time.

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

Something like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/90-98-MAZDA-MIATA-RACING-COILOVER-LOWING-SPRINGS-MX5-97_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1163Q7c66Q3a2Q 7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a0Q7c293Q3a 1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem3 60120200371QQitemZ360120200371QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5f TruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Do some research to find out the right length and diameter and then pick from:

http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=700+400280+115+4294846689

Actually I think it may be $60 per spring which seems a bit harsh. Still cheaper than Ground Control.

In which case, the link Mike provided earlier:

http://www.shutokoengineering.com/Megan-Racing-REPLACEMENT-SPRINGS-62-180-12KG-p/mr-6218012.htm

$80 for a pair is exceptional pricing.

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

I don't have stock shocks, I have AGX, which are pretty good for a light setup. I want to upgrade to Konis for sure. As for using the eBay springs, I have before lol, many times and on friends cars.

But not going off topic.

450 sounds pretty good for a street setup, you can always change it over time.

Oh I know you're on AGX's I just think others didn't in the thread. But yeah lets keep this on topic.

As for summit racing, the big advantage is you can skip shipping fees and pick them up from the warehouse :)

[Doppelgänger]

If it were me, i'd still buy the GC's, because I like the piece of mind that I am getting a quality namebrand and not supporting the cheap chinese companies that are the reason the good/respectable companies are loosing money. I try to stay from chinese products as much as possible.

As far as spring rates, I had H&R springs with the rates of 350/275 on Koni Yellows and I thought the car felt very good and stable. Anything above 400lb springs on the front is overkill on the street. Also, before you go off buying up all the suspension, start doing some auto-x events/HPDEs or anything else you can sign up for. Parts mean nothing if you don't even know how to utilize them. A good set of wheels and tires are just about as important as your suspension.

[wonton]

cool! i really appreciate the help! and all opinions!

[wonton]

If it were me, i'd still buy the GC's, because I like the piece of mind that I am getting a quality namebrand and not supporting the cheap chinese companies that are the reason the good/respectable companies are loosing money. I try to stay from chinese products as much as possible.

As far as spring rates, I had H&R springs with the rates of 350/275 on Koni Yellows and I thought the car felt very good and stable. Anything above 400lb springs on the front is overkill on the street. Also, before you go off buying up all the suspension, start doing some auto-x events/HPDEs or anything else you can sign up for. Parts mean nothing if you don't even know how to utilize them. A good set of wheels and tires are just about as important as your suspension.

i dont know where to begin! i want to get into some events i just dont know where to look, what i have to do, or even what i need!

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

Well sure Mike, if I had the extra money I would be all about buying the quality parts but for a full time student and part time worker that extra $200 is quite important.

[wonton]

and answering ur question earlier about my name! it is Sean! and ur jack right! ^

[RotorNutFD3S]

BTW Sean, you don't need a rear strut tower brace. The rollbar ties the rear end together in the same fashion. The reason I have mine still is I had it before I had the rollbar and it's a Beatrush, so it was extremely hard to get ahold of. :D

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

Yep, I am Jack... Overlord of mx5atlanta

[RotorNutFD3S]

Yep, I am Jack... Overlord of mx5atlanta

Pardon me while I go laugh my *** off...


:D :D :D

[wonton]

i know i dont need one RIPLEY!!! :p it would be nice to have one! just for the hell of it!

[RotorNutFD3S]

That's cool then! No problems with that!

[wonton]

i just want to be cool like you! and have a rare rear strut tower bar! why do you have to criticize me! :cry: hahahaha just kiddin!

[simontibbett]

If you want to get some track time cheap, autocross or look into SCCA PDX, both are cheap and great entry level ways to get your feet wet.

[wonton]

sweet! thanks, i have never done any kind of road racing events, only thing i have ever done is street race! any pointers!

[simontibbett]

Sure, don't street race there is one ;) lol.

As far as pointers, get good tires, brakes, make sure everything is in order, and don't drive faster then your mind can keep up. Listen to your instructor, look far ahead, be real smooth with steering inputs, throttle, brakes, etc. Don't just throw the car around, especially at high speeds, be nice and smooth. Don't let off mid corner or anything that will upset the car, there are walls to hit, especially at Road Atlanta lol.

[wonton]

walls = very very bad

[simontibbett]

True

[wonton]

u said instructor! im guessing there is somebody there to help guide people like me that know nothing about the sport! but know how to drive!

[simontibbett]

Yeah if you are a beginner they put you in the car with an instructor, if you plan on doing a track day let me know I can instruct.

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

Start off with a couple of Autocrosses first. They have a great novice program nowadays. Keep an eye out on here around late Feb/early March when we'll start putting up the autocross links. We're gonna try and sort out an mx5atlanta talladega track day where I'm sure someone could help out.

[matredd]

Talladega would be awesome

[simontibbett]

Yeah and not much to hit there

[jesseealexander]

since its an mx5atl track day, are bmws allowed? :)

[simontibbett]

If you're gay sure! :)

[jesseealexander]

YESSSSS!!!

ill be there