Raceland guy's....

[NA6R]

http://www.rokkortuning.com/Items/Item.aspx?sck=1948779&SKU=rokkor:ra-set-34&caSKU=rokkor%3ara-set-34&caTitle=Rokkor%20Full%20Coilover%20Kit%20for%20Maz da%20MX5%20NA

[Sawyer]

Oh geez..

[jzilla]

hellz yeah, 3 year warrantee.... "IT KEEPS YOU MOVING:

[JDM88]

Totally gonna buy a set of these.

[lance]

you paid too much :lol:

http://www.rokkortuning.com/Items/Item.aspx?sck=1948779&SKU=rokkor:ra-set-34&caSKU=rokkor%3ara-set-34&caTitle=Rokkor%20Full%20Coilover%20Kit%20for%20Maz da%20MX5%20NA

Damm, I wasted my money on Ohlins:lol:

[Dr.Drew]

Totally gonna buy a set of these.

For what exactly? You get a new car? Did I miss something?

[NA6R]

for $269 I'm going to try them out....we'll see in a week or two

[Bernie]

All our products are TUV approved

Very interesting...

[scandmx5]

For what exactly? You get a new car? Did I miss something?
possibly he does, however they sell them for the ******r -err BMW crowd too

[mustangtomiata]

it;s not exspensive...why not?

[metalman]

Damm, I wasted my money on Ohlins:lol:

You big dummy! :lol:

http://blackathlete.net/artman2/uploads/1/fred-sanford_1.jpg

[FE3tMX5]

for $269 I'm going to try them out....we'll see in a week or two

You should test them back to back with a set of OE shocks and springs (minus a coil and half). My money is on the latter. :D

[NA6R]

You should test them back to back with a set of OE shocks and springs (minus a coil and half). My money is on the latter. :D

http://images.ukcs.net/14483/rolleyes.gif

[Jecht]

The guys on clubroadster found out these are just racelands with a different name stamped on them.

[NA6R]

well mine arrived. to start off with i'm not impressed with the spring set up. 10" total spring height and the adjusters are at the bottom of the threads.
I knew I was going to change spring rates when I ordered. Now I'll have to change lengths and drop the dual rate set up for a single linear 8" spring.

The shock valving feel fine pushing in the shaft. And it returns quickly. I'm hoping to have them dyno'd soon. That way I can spring it right.

The bad I see;
the threads are light duty in the shock body.
The front's have 5" of travel, and 4.5" in the rear. The included bumpstops take up 2" of that. What were they thinking.

[jester911]

Now who paid too much.:rolleyes:

[amaff]

Man, no one saw that coming...

[NA6R]

Now who paid too much.:rolleyes:

Used 8" x 2.5" springs are a dime a dozen. So I'll have $400 in them when I'm done, big deal. I'll have the spring rates I want and the ability to corner weight.

edit;
Jester,
going into this I knew I wanted different spring rates. So it's not out of the original plan yet.

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

Now who paid too much.:rolleyes:

Man, no one saw that coming...

I, for one, am glad that we have someone who's gone out on a limb to try them out and actually see them in person. :dunno:

[jester911]

I, for one, am glad that we have someone who's gone out on a limb to try them out and actually see them in person. :dunno:

I agree with that but why try to taunt the poor souls that bought ricelands.:lol:

[jzilla]

i agree with that but why try to taunt the poor souls that bought ricelands.:lol:


b.i.n.g.o.

[FE3tMX5]

You're doing it wrong. What they really sent was "spring options". You just need to cut them as needed. Done correctly and you could have eight springs! :D

[NA6R]

well heres some pics and opinion.

http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n442/kd4yor/utf-8BSU1HMDAwMDMtMjAxMDA5MDMtMDcyNC5qcGc.jpg?t=128351 7495

who knew :confused:
http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n442/kd4yor/utf-8BSU1HMDAwMDQtMjAxMDA5MDMtMDcyNS5qcGc.jpg?t=128351 7495

included tools. Cheap stamped steel...but look like they'll work
http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n442/kd4yor/utf-8BSU1HMDAwMDUtMjAxMDA5MDMtMDcyNS5qcGc.jpg?t=128351 7495

a front unit
the unloaded spring height is equal to all the adjustment and free extension of the shock
http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n442/kd4yor/utf-8BSU1HMDAwMTItMjAxMDA5MDMtMDczMy5qcGc.jpg?t=128351 7655

this is why, there are 2 springs. A main spring and a tender spring. I'll guess the tender at 100#. This will mean it lives compressed 3/4 to full most of the time.
I don't have a way to measure the main spring.
My guess is they couldn't get a spring they wanted and used off the shelf stuff to keep cost down.
http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n442/kd4yor/utf-8BSU1HMDAwMTAtMjAxMDA5MDMtMDczMi5qcGc.jpg?t=128351 7741

aluminum top cap and plastic dual rate slider. I've read people *****ing about the plastic slider. This is a point I agree with in this CO set up. The slider will be the weak point as it grinds over the threads on the shock body.
http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n442/kd4yor/utf-8BSU1HMDAwMTEtMjAxMDA5MDMtMDczMy5qcGc.jpg?t=128351 7900

threaded body of the steel shock. Their not Koni quality, but their $300 CO's
http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n442/kd4yor/utf-8BSU1HMDAwMDctMjAxMDA5MDMtMDcyOS5qcGc.jpg?t=128351 7995

lower adjustable spring seat and jamb nut / lock ring. These seem decent quality aluminum.
http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n442/kd4yor/utf-8BSU1HMDAwMDktMjAxMDA5MDMtMDczMS5qcGc.jpg?t=128351 8055

plenty of thread engagement for what we do. If these were for a Baja race truck, they'd fail.
http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n442/kd4yor/utf-8BSU1HMDAwMDgtMjAxMDA5MDMtMDczMC5qcGc.jpg?t=128351 8125

4.75 or 120mm of travel
http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n442/kd4yor/utf-8BSU1HMDAwMTQtMjAxMDA5MDMtMDczNi5qcGc.jpg?t=128351 8203

a 2" thick bump stop! come on guy's what were you thinking....yeah I know, it was off the shelf and $.02 each.
http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n442/kd4yor/utf-8BSU1HMDAwMTMtMjAxMDA5MDMtMDczNS5qcGc.jpg?t=128351 8255

more to come. I have to get them dyno'd and buy some used 2.5"x 8" springs before the install.


and Rob
very few of us have your kinda money to throw around.
http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n442/kd4yor/stfu-avatar.jpg?t=1283518903

[jzilla]

I don't believe Rob, "throws" around Money. I happen to know that he works very hard for what he has and knows what is good for these cars. And you are looking at a miata veteran that knows what he is doing.

Rob, is "your" dollar different from mine? Something i missed?

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

I agree with that but why try to taunt the poor souls that bought ricelands.:lol:

I didn't think it really came off as taunting them. I thought it was meant to be ironic and then he was following through with it for everyone else.

:dunno: I could be mistaken.

[NA6R]

Jack,
If you wish to keep tossing infractions my way. And deleating my work. Just go ahead and permaband me.
Apperantly I don't have for the proper whine and cheez for your group.

Further updates will be at clubroadster
Posted via Mobile Device

[scandmx5]

:jzilla:

[jzilla]

ORLY, this is on another forum?

:jzilla:

[jester911]

I didn't think it really came off as taunting them. I thought it was meant to be ironic and then he was following through with it for everyone else.

:dunno: I could be mistaken.

I was just kidding around. I don't have a dog in the fight one way or the other.

I will say though this is the first time I have seen someone from here move to CR. The whine and cheez crack is funny too. I have met quite a few from here most are far from that.

Try going to a PCA meet if you really want to see some of that.:lol:

[NA6R]

Try going to a PCA meet if you really want to see some of that.:lol:

You must belong to a different Peachstate PCA than I did. Working for Doc was one of the greatest experiences I've ever had. :shrug:
Posted via Mobile Device

[scandmx5]

i thought you left??

[jester911]

The track guys are fine. Its some of the other stuff I was talking about.

[metalman]

Need whine and cheezey? PMC. ;)
They got it goin' on.

[0displacement]

jeeeezus... i thought i got out of the elitism when i sold my 240.. there is apparently an entirely different level of it over here in the miata world.. no wonder there aren't many users on this forum.

if someone wants to try out new cheap stuff that no one else is willing to why the hell is everyone giving him/them so much ****? im pretty sure he and everyone else who buys these products arent expecting ohlin ( for you racecar freaks) and stance ( for the normal people ) quality out of them.

[jzilla]

i thought you left??

this.

[jzilla]

jeeeezus... i thought i got out of the elitism when i sold my 240.. there is apparently an entirely different level of it over here in the miata world.. no wonder there aren't many users on this forum.

if someone wants to try out new cheap stuff that no one else is willing to why the hell is everyone giving him/them so much ****? im pretty sure he and everyone else who buys these products arent expecting ohlin ( for you racecar freaks) and stance ( for the normal people ) quality out of them.

meh I would not say elitists, Most of us drive at least a 10 year old car. I've done the m.net, got banned. on purpose. done Cr. cant really get into it. Tried PMC once, it was not the same as when my parents were part of the starting crew. Im 35 and most of the guys here are much younger. The generations have changed but the arguments are still the same.

No matter where you go, there will be pointies.

Lets take your car for example, I think its cool, but I would never do it. Personally if I drove a car like that, I would need a big *** wing. but that is just me.

for the most part, there are cool people here.

[RotorNutFD3S]

no wonder there aren't many users on this forum.

Wait, what?

Members: 904

For a 2 year old forum that focuses on a car that's not nearly as popular as the 240s and Civics in a specific area of one state, I'd say we're doing pretty good.

[Dr.Drew]

no wonder there aren't many users on this forum.

Quality over quantity

[Spark!Plug]

Lets take your car for example, I think its cool, but I would never do it. Personally if I drove a car like that, I would need a big *** wing. but that is just me.

:facepalm:
wide and low. The wing he has on it looks fine, but i'd take it of. but that's just me. i love the yakuza bozoku bippu look he has goin on.

[NA6R]

if someone wants to try out new cheap stuff that no one else is willing to why the hell is everyone giving him/them so much ****? im pretty sure he and everyone else who buys these products arent expecting ohlin ( for you racecar freaks) and stance ( for the normal people ) quality out of them.

^that

it's the poster's money being wasted....why does anyone care other than to get some tech out of it?

[jester911]

Actually no one really does care.

[NA6R]

Actually no one really does care.

and that's sad

[jester911]

Pat if you would just lighten up a bit with "I am a grumpy ole man" persona it would serve much better here. I have not met you but I would imagine your not near as surly in person. Its not that no one cares if someone experiments with cheaper stuff. It is that no one cares to listen to holier than thou rants.

You seem to have this impression that everyone here is 16 and knows nothing. Just FYI I am 52 so I am not a kid. I would have much more interest in your project but the first impression you have made is that you will listen to no one and will not even respond to legitimate questions about what you are working on.

It has nothing to do with any kind of elitist attitude.
In other words it is not the project but the on screen persona you have portrayed.

[NA6R]

Pat if you would just lighten up a bit with "I am a grumpy ole man" persona it would serve much better here. I have not met you but I would imagine your not near as surly in person. Its not that no one cares if someone experiments with cheaper stuff. It is that no one cares to listen to holier than thou rants.

You seem to have this impression that everyone here is 16 and knows nothing. Just FYI I am 52 so I am not a kid. I would have much more interest in your project but the first impression you have made is that you will listen to no one and will not even respond to legitimate questions about what you are working on.

It has nothing to do with any kind of elitist attitude.
In other words it is not the project but the on screen persona you have portrayed.

My attitude about this is the inverse reaction to the "no one cares" The "no one cares" attitude stifles development, period.
So I'll document what I'm doing to develop these into a usable product. If you don't like it, don't read it....or better yet don't comment. The pervasive negative comments are a waste of time and band width.
I'm putting the time, energy and money into this and sharing my results with the class. I could just as easily do it and share on CR, MNet or just keep it quiet. But no one learns from that. Instead they just keep walking down that same old cookie cutter path as everyone else. :shrug:

So if no one truly cares about the possibility of a decent set of CO's for under $500...I'll let the thread die.

and I believe we've meet.
MX5 Miata Atlanta Owners Club - View Single Post - Deconstructed

[jester911]

I am not sure if we met. I was not there when you guys did that project. I just knew about it. I crewed for Tyler and others at the 13 hour last year so that is my connection.

Posting progress on your CO project will be well received by most I believe. Just try not to be such a curmudgeon when presenting it and it well be even better.

[NA6R]

I am not sure if we met. I was not there when you guys did that project. I just knew about it. I crewed for Tyler and others at the 13 hour last year so that is my connection.

Posting progress on your CO project will be well received by most I believe. Just try not to be such a curmudgeon when presenting it and it well be even better.

I despise negativity. Those who give it, get it back.

This project is happening. It's progress and info will be posted somewhere. we'll just have to see where it ends up at. If it works Awesome. If it doesn't.....i don't care.

[jester911]

Well then there is some common ground. I consider myself a very positive person. If you despise negativity then try portraying a more positive attitude toward others even if they may not totally agree with you.

[NA6R]

updates posted

[oldgrayfrog]

Okay, so we know that these puppies are what $250? So far it would seem that the bumpstops are too big (easily fixed by a utility knife) and the springs aren't the best. As I have not heard about there being any catostrophic failures of the shock bodies, it would seem trimming the bumpstop and replacing the springs with something a bit nicer might really help these out. KSport has individual coilsprings on Ebay at about $50 per coil, so you would still be below your $500 ceiling, you could go crazy and buy Swift spring ($85.50 @ Ebay) and break over to $590, still cheaper than any of the bigger name coilovers, TEIN basics start around $725 on Ebay for instance. the biggest drawback I suppose would be whether or not you can get the shock bodies revalved if need be. I know that you could easily find some old 8" springs in your desired range, but isn't the point to be repeatable? "Go and find some used coilsprings 8" at 350 # for $50", isn't going to be something everyone can do, so you need to find a supplier of quality springs for cheap. I'm putting a call in with FM on Tuesday, to see what they are selling replacement coilsprings for the Ground Control collars for, I'll post here to let you know.

[NA6R]

how many thousand do you want? :lol:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HAL-8CS350/

the shock body can be disassembled easilly as the top is similar to a Bilstein. Getting / making shims might be a problem. Recharging them would be another problem

sleves
http://www.summitracing.com/search/Part-Type/Coil-Over-Sleeves/

$20 and up

problem I see is people get hung up on the name. it really doesn't mater on the hardware. It just machined Aluminum..... Most will probably change the part out for something else new and shiny. Long before the life span of the part is reached.

[NA6R]

OGF,
There are a few problems running collars. Way back when we wern't allowed to modify the spring seats in IT. Eveyone just ran the spring flavor of the year. Eibach, H&R...who evers stock style replacement spring. Well someone, don't remember who it was pushed the rule. They cut the spring bucket off except for the welded ring on the shock body. Then slid a coil over sleve on top of it.
IIRC, they got protested, but eventually they won on appeal because the "stock" seat was still there.
Well guess what....Carrera did a booming business in collars, hardware and springs. Except we started to see fatigue from big off course excursions. The collars would crack on the poor grind work of the stock seat.

I did this on my IT car using a set of R Bilsteins and Carrera tubes.....giant fail. If you think the drift guys are slammed....should have seen me after an off course at turn 3. The collars dropped to the bottom and i had no suspension.
What was quickly discovered is Carrera at the time was using a round C Clip on the shock body to hold the collar. Bilstein used a square c lip. With the impact load the Carrera collar slid past the Bilstein clip.
You have to watch for that design element to avoud "laying frame"

[oldgrayfrog]

Okay, why 8" and not 7" or even 6"? Swift makes them as short as 6" and as long as 8", Ksport is weird at 6 and 1/2 and 8". The spring rates are another issue, FM insists nothing past around 400 for the fronts and around 300 for the rear. The coilovers I want to build are going to use the Ground Control collars I have about, and either a set of KYB AGX, or Bilstein shock (the newer MSM style not the old R). I got the GC collars cheap with a hideous looking set of OBX coil springs that I'm not all that thrilled with. I was thinking about using the Swift springs(flavor of the year) with around 8k(448) front and 6k(336) rear. Thoughts? I am admittedly over my head here in suspension tuning.

[traatz]

Okay, why 8" and not 7" or even 6"? Swift makes them as short as 6" and as long as 8", Ksport is weird at 6 and 1/2 and 8". The spring rates are another issue, FM insists nothing past around 400 for the fronts and around 300 for the rear. The coilovers I want to build are going to use the Ground Control collars I have about, and either a set of KYB AGX, or Bilstein shock (the newer MSM style not the old R). I got the GC collars cheap with a hideous looking set of OBX coil springs that I'm not all that thrilled with. I was thinking about using the Swift springs(flavor of the year) with around 8k(448) front and 6k(336) rear. Thoughts? I am admittedly over my head here in suspension tuning.
OGF, if you want to talk suspension tech, feel free to contact me and I can steer you down a better path than you appear to currently be on. I like to keep my opinions about this stuff off the boards. Like with Pat, everyone assumes I am an idiot and dont know what I am talking about since I dont follow the rest of the sheep. If you want your miata to handle way better than you ever thought possible, give me a call, I kind of know what I am talking about.
Tyler

[Adrian]

If you want your miata to handle way better than you ever thought possible, give me a call, I kind of know what I am talking about.
Tyler

Can I call too? :D

[NA6R]

Okay, why 8" and not 7" or even 6"? Swift makes them as short as 6" and as long as 8", Ksport is weird at 6 and 1/2 and 8". The spring rates are another issue, FM insists nothing past around 400 for the fronts and around 300 for the rear. The coilovers I want to build are going to use the Ground Control collars I have about, and either a set of KYB AGX, or Bilstein shock (the newer MSM style not the old R). I got the GC collars cheap with a hideous looking set of OBX coil springs that I'm not all that thrilled with. I was thinking about using the Swift springs(flavor of the year) with around 8k(448) front and 6k(336) rear. Thoughts? I am admittedly over my head here in suspension tuning.

spring length is going to be determined by several factors. I try to start with the adjuster in the middle of the threads, and 1/2 travel. Then you have to add for the weight your carrying. This is a way simplified explanation.
I don't know anything about Swift springs. I've always used a generic "redneck circle track" spring.
AGX were all the rage at the time Tokikos were. (early 90's) never ran'em.
read my story above about the collars. I disagree with the spring rates Keith is recommending.
Keep in mind. I was last on track in 1996....talk to Tyler for more current info

[traatz]

Can I call too? :D

Sure can, If you have a legit question or just want to talk. Pm your contact into and a good time to reach you.
Tyler

[traatz]

Pat, My 250# springs are not the ones I thought I had. They were not my normal rear GTL springs, they were my rain springs, 220#, 9" length.
I also found a set of Hypercos on the back shelf, 500#, 9" length, but 2.25" I.D. these must have come off one on the formula cars. I dont think the 9" stuff will work for you, but let me know if you want to try.
PS, I can easily turn down the lower perches and tops if you want to use 2.25 stuff, lots of it out there cheap.

[RotorNutFD3S]

I like to keep my opinions about this stuff off the boards. Like with Pat, everyone assumes I am an idiot and dont know what I am talking about since I dont follow the rest of the sheep. If you want your miata to handle way better than you ever thought possible, give me a call, I kind of know what I am talking about.
Tyler

I can't ever recall anyone disagreeing with anything you've said or done... :dunno: And after hearing Sean talk about you, I'd think you're a really smart guy when it comes to what you're doing. Can't say I've seen anything in person and if I have, I'm sorry, I look at so many builds they start to blur together sometimes.

Why is everyone so damn touchy this week?

[NA6R]

the lower perch wall is kinda thin as is and it's keeping 1/2 of the thread. I think for now I'll live with the 2.5's Thanks anyway.

I'm going to try them this week and see what happens. the race trailer will be back from Utah on 9/15. I'll be able to dyno then.

[traatz]

I can't ever recall anyone disagreeing with anything you've said or done... :dunno: Why is everyone so damn touchy this week?
Not touchy, not upset, mostly not bothered by anyone or anything on THIS forum. Anyone one here who knows me or has met me knows I will openly give out any of my chassis or NA engine secrets.
I will give a complete build sheet with specs for 100% of my best ITA car, chassis set up, shock valving, spring rates, sway bar sizes and settings, alignment specs, corner weights, engine build specifics, a copy of my MSPNP tune etc for ANYONE who wants it. However, since I dont follow the sheep, nobody wants it.:lol:
See you at C&O tomorrow?

[mustangtomiata]

ITA let's you run MS?

[NA6R]

ITA let's you run MS?

in the last few years it's become legal...did we cheat before....:dunno:

[metalman]

ITA let's you run MS?

Yeah man...you can run nearly anything....unless you get caught. :lol:
But, MS is legal.

[RotorNutFD3S]

Not touchy, not upset, mostly not bothered by anyone or anything on THIS forum. Anyone one here who knows me or has met me knows I will openly give out any of my chassis or NA engine secrets.
I will give a complete build sheet with specs for 100% of my best ITA car, chassis set up, shock valving, spring rates, sway bar sizes and settings, alignment specs, corner weights, engine build specifics, a copy of my MSPNP tune etc for ANYONE who wants it. However, since I dont follow the sheep, nobody wants it.:lol:
See you at C&O tomorrow?

I can understand that.

Absolutely, I'll be there bright and early!

[NA6R]

OGF

have you had enough to read or did your head explode?

[traatz]

Yeah man...you can run nearly anything....unless you get caught. :lol:
But, MS is legal.
On my current car, I can honestly say, there is not an illigal item to be found anywhere this time! It makes the wins so much sweeter when you know you are doing it all fair and legal. I cant wait to get protested and torn down once the new engine is tuned and making top power.:clap:

[oldgrayfrog]

Naw, my head did swell up a bit, but no actual explosions.

[scandmx5]

frog go to bed with your old gray self. C&O is a few hours away :lol:

[NA6R]

oh look
near normal ride height and travel

http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n442/kd4yor/utf-8BSU1HMDAwMjgtMjAxMDA5MDUtMTMzOC5qcGc.jpg?t=128370 9425

http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n442/kd4yor/utf-8BSU1HMDAwMjYtMjAxMDA5MDUtMTI0Ni5qcGc.jpg?t=128370 9425

[oldgrayfrog]

So what are you planning? Drop it down to what? What springs are you planning on running, or are they already on there?

[NA6R]

So what are you planning? Drop it down to what? What springs are you planning on running, or are they already on there?

For the next week it'll be the supplied springs. I'll pull one side off again next weekend so I can dyno them.
I think ride height is going to be near stock. 12" or so hub to lip. Any lower and the roll center appears to go underground.
First spring change is going to be a 275-300 6" rear main coil. This will keep the dual rate set up. While saving the front main springs. I want to first dial in a "cheap upgrade" to the system. After I get some decent rubber to autox on I can start playing with stiffer or single rate set ups.
Posted via Mobile Device

[NA6R]

well crap, no one makes a 6" that light. So 8" 275's it is. That ups the cost of the kit to $389.
It should have the same front rear bias and behavior as a stock Miata, just stiffer. These springs will be in in time to replace them after the dyno session.

[oldgrayfrog]

I'll be following along with great interest. How high a spring rate do you think the Raceland dampers can tolerate?

[NA6R]

I'll be following along with great interest. How high a spring rate do you think the Raceland dampers can tolerate?

no idea. The dyno will "tell all"
they feel fairly soft and gentle. I don't think the fronts could stand up to a SM set up at 700/325. The rears probably.

[traatz]

well crap, no one makes a 6" that light. So 8" 275's it is. That ups the cost of the kit to $389.
It should have the same front rear bias and behavior as a stock Miata, just stiffer. These springs will be in in time to replace them after the dyno session.
anything wrong with 7"?
qa-1's 200# and up, eibachs 275# and up, hyperco, 175 and up.
I do use 6" fronts, but have always used 7's in the rear for greater availability. 8's seem too long, why carry the extra unsprung weight.

[NA6R]

anything wrong with 7"?
qa-1's 200# and up, eibachs 275# and up, hyperco, 175 and up.
I do use 6" fronts, but have always used 7's in the rear for greater availability. 8's seem too long, why carry the extra unsprung weight.

nothing wrong with 7's. it's just Pro has 8" 10 miles away :shrug:
looking at prices on Summit. I think their about $10 cheaper / spring too.
guess I should see what Port City has on Tuesday too.

[traatz]

The qa1's at summit are only $39/per, I didn't think you could get springs much cheaper than that!

[NA6R]

The qa1's at summit are only $39/per, I didn't think you could get springs much cheaper than that!

in a 7"....I'll have to go look. That's worth waiting for

OH MAN!!!! 39/ea
thx Tyler
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HAL-7-250/
it's a 250 but that'll be ok.
drops the total cost to 375ish

after shipping and tax 95 a pair

[oldgrayfrog]

Well I went on Summit and "ordered" a set of springs and 2 springs with tax and shipping, the cost per QA1 spring came to...$48.50. I then went onto 949's site and "ordered" a set of TEIN coilover springs....with tax and shipping it comes to $65.43.I'm not sure whether the Swift are worth an extra $68. They are the flavor of the month though :)

[NA6R]

Well I went on Summit and "ordered" a set of springs and 2 springs with tax and shipping, the cost per QA1 spring came to...$48.50. I then went onto 949's site and "ordered" a set of TEIN coilover springs....with tax and shipping it comes to $65.43.I'm not sure whether the Swift are worth an extra $68. They are the flavor of the month though :)

I have an answer for that but it will just get me another infraction :(

[NA6R]

First drive on them is a good impression. I can't hammer on it because I have an alignment problem to fix. So this week will be all about ride quality. And so far they are nice. Not too stiff, but def better than stock. I can feel more road anomalies. A rough set of train tracks didn't cause them to bottom out either.
Posted via Mobile Device

[NA6R]

I put 50 miles on them today. Just general driving. So far their impressive. The car is much more flat. Almost no brake dive or acceleration squat. There is a slight body roll at turn in. But it levels out quickly. Where before it was like a 60's Caddy wallowing under it's own weight.
I'd be tempted to leave the 390's out back, but my mind tells me it'll push badly with the stock sway's.

[traatz]

I'd be tempted to leave the 390's out back, but my mind tells me it'll push badly with the stock sway's.

Pat, what is your logic here? Softer rear springs will INCREASE push. Softer front springs if you want less push. Have you been out of suspension tuning that long???:lol:

[oldgrayfrog]

If you like the ride quality, and it's not squating or diving, why not just solve the roll, and understeer problems with sway bars?

[traatz]

If you like the ride quality, and it's not squating or diving, why not just solve the roll, and understeer problems with sway bars?

^^^^^ this^^^^^

[NA6R]

Pat, what is your logic here? Softer rear springs will INCREASE push. Softer front springs if you want less push. Have you been out of suspension tuning that long???:lol:

as they sent them it's a 92% ratio front rear. That just seems high :shrug:

OGF, I'm strangely OK with the amount of roll I have....I don't have enough seat support yet to go full flat 1+g corners.

[jzilla]

:jzilla: <--- is amused.

[oldgrayfrog]

I'm with ya there. I could pull some serious corners in my 92 with the Elise seats, but would probably fly out of the Italia's leather OEM style seats. 92% seems really high, most "recommended by" settings seem closer to rear = 75% of front sort of ratio.

[scandmx5]

^ i love those seats

[NA6R]

I'm with ya there. I could pull some serious corners in my 92 with the Elise seats, but would probably fly out of the Italia's leather OEM style seats. 92% seems really high, most "recommended by" settings seem closer to rear = 75% of front sort of ratio.

and OE is down around 60%. My memory of the feeling of the SSC and SSA cars is. You'ld turn in and feel the rear squat and grab. Not the front lifting. I haven't pushed this hard yet cuz I have a bent lower rear bolt adding "fun" toe and camber. But as of now. The back feels solid and I feel the front come up at turn in.

[NA6R]

looking at this
http://www.puppetmaster-robotics.com/Miata/miata_springs.htm

very few set up's are at or near that high of a ratio.

[traatz]

800front 275-375rear depending on track and conditions on my ITA car. This would suck on the street and push into every cone on the course on an autox course, works great at race speeds though.

[NA6R]

800front 275-375rear depending on track and conditions on my ITA car. This would suck on the street and push into every cone on the course on an autox course, works great at race speeds though.

conversely 425/390 on the track?

[traatz]

conversely 425/390 on the track?

great for drifting I guess:lol:
that would be a scary ride on the track though, have you ever looked strait at the pit wall exiting 9 at roebling? Run those springs and you can try it every single lap!
It MIGHT autocross well, but not really my area of expertice as I bring the suck on an autocross course.

[NA6R]

great for drifting I guess:lol:
that would be a scary ride on the track though, have you ever looked strait at the pit wall exiting 9 at roebling? Run those springs and you can try it every single lap!
It MIGHT autocross well, but not really my area of expertice as I bring the suck on an autocross course.

there's a wall coming out of 9? the plant in that corner was always soo good I never saw it. 4th gear flat on the floor.

Where your IT car is is what I was used to with mine. I'm clueless at autoX spring rates. That's why I was wanting to drop the rear to 250-300. It's a comfortable set up.

[NA6R]

The ramp from Boggs to 85N felt a lot more solid with a 10mph higher exit speed under the bridge.
Posted via Mobile Device

[traatz]

I drove Pat's car today and must say I was surprised/impressed with the ride quality. It is at stock ride height that certainly helped the ride quality, but the handling was pretty good as well. I fully expected and did not feel any of the ricer frot end bounce crap. The alignment is a bit out of whack so I did not get to flog the car, But I think once the set up is dialed in it should be a decent track worthy setup. Not quite top shelf stuff, but WAY better than most of the ebay junk out there. Time will tell on the longevity of these parts, but as of right now I would give it two thumbs up. This is a great entry level value with middle of the road feel.

[NA6R]

I don't think it matters much what the facts are. $300 CO's are junk, period. :laughing:
Posted via Mobile Device

[wildfire0310]

I don't think it matters much what the facts are. $300 CO's are junk, period. :laughing:
Posted via Mobile Device


Well kinda lol. Really you proven two things with this setup. One, out of the box the cheapo CO suck. Two with some knowledge and work, the cheapo CO can be made to work well.

What I want to see is a test between modified cheapo vs Revalve belisten/koni&GC vs ohlin(sp)

[NA6R]

I don't think I've proven anything yet :shrug:

Yeah the spring rates arn't what most would expect. But, it doesn't ride bad for DDing.

To to a fair comparison. It'll need to be on the same car. Or the same driver in two cars. Maybe something to do at a HPDE.
I think asking these CO's to perform like a set of 2k CO's is like asking a Miata to perform like a Cayman S.
I didn't go into this thinking they would be "top shelf" CO's. I just think they are better that they get credit for.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

I don't think a revalve Bilstein/koni/gc is a fair comparison either. That's a way more expensive setup.

[jzilla]

I don't think a revalve Bilstein/koni/gc is a fair comparison either. That's a way more expensive setup.


i think that is what im going for next. not power. car is plenty strong, im not even close to limit driving on the track.

[wildfire0310]

I think asking these CO's to perform like a set of 2k CO's is like asking a Miata to perform like a Cayman S.
I didn't go into this thinking they would be "top shelf" CO's. I just think they are better that they get credit for.
Posted via Mobile Device

I don't think a revalve Bilstein/koni/gc is a fair comparison either. That's a way more expensive setup.


Really it not to prove which is better, but how much of a difference is there. I wouldn't expect a Knoi/GC to perform as great as some "top shelf" CO, but many people don't need the extra that the "top shelf" CO offer.

It would be good to show, how close or how far apart the systems are.

[oldgrayfrog]

Yeah, get one driver, say Randy Stocker to drive three different setups. Randy is consistent enough as a top level autox to make his inputs about as variable free as can be. You would have to use the same car though, just too many variables in alignment, bushing life, braces etc., but it would be interesting.

[oldgrayfrog]

Pat, I have a set of OBX coils that came to me with a Ground Control collar set, would it be possible for you to dyno them, and then know the spring rates?

[NA6R]

Pat, I have a set of OBX coils that came to me with a Ground Control collar set, would it be possible for you to dyno them, and then know the spring rates?

call Pro Shocks in Lawrenceville and see if they can rate the springs. If not, there was a large spring company on Panola between Covington and 20. Sorry don't remember the name.
Or you could try rating them yourself....with a press and a bathroom scale or two.

[NA6R]

It would be good to show, how close or how far apart the systems are.

yes it would

[Rafa'sMiata]

hey pat were are the pics, or just the instructions of the setup you have on your shocks? the one we talked about yesterday when fixing the top of my car. i have looked and i cant find it, i would like to get it done this week before i get my car align. thanks!

[NA6R]

hey pat were are the pics, or just the instructions of the setup you have on your shocks? the one we talked about yesterday when fixing the top of my car. i have looked and i cant find it, i would like to get it done this week before i get my car align. thanks!

:( I thought it was in this thread.
Look here
ClubRoadster.net - View Single Post - Rokkor Coilovers; The new Raceland?

[NA6R]

Well I'm torn on what rear springs I want. 275's will give me about a 65% split and 300's will be 70%.
The 390's that came with the kit are way too stiff. The car will step out in a high load corner. Rides great, and I'm guessing it would drag great with the absent squat.
Posted via Mobile Device

[NA6R]

After about 7k miles of mixed driving I like them; a lot!

today's Dynoliscious run on 60
http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n442/kd4yor/utf-8BSU1HMDAxMDQtMjAxMDExMDYtMTkzNC5qcGc.jpg?t=128908 6688

[NA6R]

WAHOO!!!
Converted another NA owner. I'll have to send in my coupon for a free toaster.

Welcome to the Clark Howard school of Miata performance, Bovaco

[bovaco]

WAHOO!!!
Converted another NA owner. I'll have to send in my coupon for a free toaster.

Welcome to the Clark Howard school of Miata performance, Bovaco

:lol: Yes I am a true student of CHSM and I credit "Professor Pat" for a job well done. More of you should listen in class you would be impressed with his knowledge.

[NA6R]

so I started playing with different combinations in the FCM spread sheet.
I'm starting to see a 425/275 with a RB hollow front bar and stock 12mm rear bar. Looking like a really nice budget ($600) set up.

The on paper numbers are extremely close to well documented / proven set up's.
http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n442/kd4yor/Miatasetup.jpg?t=1290185798

Ok, so now all you experts rip my idea apart

[jzilla]

Pat you have proven your point, sounds like a good deal. Now it just sounds like you are being an attention ***** and want to pick internet fights with people.

[NA6R]

Pat you have proven your point, sounds like a good deal. Now it just sounds like you are being an attention ***** and want to pick internet fights with people.

nope, it's further development....:shrug:

If you take it as a fight, sorry.

[jzilla]

Ok, so now all you experts rip my idea apart

im not, but others might. i mean, was that last line really necessary?

I think people were actually thinking twice about this.

[NA6R]

im not, but others might. i mean, was that last line really necessary?

I think people were actually thinking twice about this.

My ideas start out as wierdness. I refine them with what info I can find, read, touch or feel. I'll post up a half brained idea, looking for input. You can have a very good dialogue even with a request to "rip apart" my idea. Hell Randy's sent me packing for more info on several occasions. I know there are experts here with much more seat time than I have, so it kinda fits.....

It's all in the eyes and attitude of the reader.

[Dr.Drew]

After about 7k miles of mixed driving I like them; a lot!

today's Dynoliscious run on 60


Somewhere within the dynolicious app you can export these tables in high def that includes the skid pad and charts.

Just do you know.

[wildfire0310]

Figure I would quote Andrew's(Savington) post from MT about his use of Racelands on the rental car.

Precisely. Those were supposed to be a temporary stopgap measure to get the car rolling and shaken down, which they did quite well (in that they keep the car from scraping on the ground). We've had to loosen our definition of "temporary" in the last few months, though. http://www.miataturbo.net/forum/images/smilies/gay.gif It will be fun to see exact back-to-backs at various tracks between those two setups.


Like a moth to light, we had to see how bad/good they really were while we waited for the real shocks to show up. They've certainly exceeded our expectations - it took us 4 whole months to blow all 4 dampers. http://www.miataturbo.net/images/smilies/wink.gif Brand new out-of-the-box, they ride better than stock and are definitely not bad, but I feel like we leased them and didn't make the second payment, because now the highway ride is bumpy and jouncy and I've been told it looks like a pogo stick on track. Still fast, but if it had more than 120whp it would probably be a real handful. I cannot WAIT to get decent shocks under this car and see what it will really do.

[Sawyer]

Hmm.. Interesting. I was wondering what the life expectancy was like on them.

[NA6R]

Meh, I'm at 8700 miles with no dicernable change

[wildfire0310]

Hmm.. Interesting. I was wondering what the life expectancy was like on them.

Granted this is on a track car that seems more track time in a month, then most cars seen in a whole year, but it just goes to show. What works ok/good on the street, can't deal with the abuse a track throws at the it.

[jzilla]

but arent most people using this on the street/?

[wildfire0310]

Meh, I'm at 8700 miles with no dicernable change

Nice

but arent most people using this on the street/?


True, but I just want to give people who may not be on MT, the point of view of a someone who has plenty of seat time with different setups.

Andrew even says, out of the box, they were nice, and better then stock, but after heavy uses and abuse, they started to fall apart on him. To me, in my opinion, I see it as. Out of the box on the street they are nice, but if you run a more aggressive setup, or push them often, don't be shocked if they shelf life of the part is short.

After seen Pats car(I believe he had the racelands on) Pat didn't have an aggressive setup, my Koni and RB springs were lower. So Pat seems to be showing that on the street with a more conservative ride height that they are preforming well, and lasting so far. Only time will tell.

[JEMERY]

I believe anything with an aggressive setup on Atlanta roads is going to be destroyed with a quickness. With a two year warranty I think its worth the risk to get something for the time being to replace blown struts without going to something ridiculously expensive.

[NA6R]

ohhollyhell......

Raceland Dyno Test Results - Miata Turbo Forum - Home of the turbo Mazda Miata.

[amaff]

now that's comedy right there!

[VitaminD]

Raceland owes you commission and a fat check for doing R&D for them.

[miatasaint]

Meh, I'm at 8700 miles with no dicernable change


at 16000 miles here. no change, still workin like when i installed them.

[mustangtomiata]

pat this thread started off terribly but is continually getting better, and the amount of R&D you are doing is blowing my mind and you have about convinced me to buy a set and do your final setup on them. Awesome work!

[NA6R]

pat this thread started off terribly but is continually getting better, and the amount of R&D you are doing is blowing my mind and you have about convinced me to buy a set and do your final setup on them. Awesome work!

it's not all me. I'm just the loud mouth who wouldn't take "their crap" for an answer

lot's a good stuff on m.net and MT also.

I need to add Bovaco has taken it up a notch from where I'm able to go. Due to what i was finding on the FCM calculators he's agreed to get a Racing Beat hollow front bar. This should provide some nice additional details on the abilities.

[mustangtomiata]

i just went for a spirited drive and in the middle of it this though hit me. Everyone is talking about comparing it to a common spring shock setup and I'd be more than willing to swap suspensions with you. I have flyin miata springs, agx's and metal top hats. It is a common setup and comparable in cost to what your at now. So if your willing we can put my stuff under your car and i'll try out the coilovers then swap back and review. And to be perfectly honest the suspension on my car doesn't really impress me. I much preferred the feel of the factory bilsteins and stock springs i had on my NB even though there was more body roll.

[NA6R]

yeah I'm game, but it's gonna require a MTN run.

Just a spring / shock swap, you run your sways, I'll run mine.

this is a great idea. I have a few runs up 60 and 68 logged in my dynoliscious to compare

[mustangtomiata]

yes i have aftermarket sways. mountain run works good for me. i'm really interested to see how it goes but i have a feeling yours will feel better.

[NA6R]

yes i have aftermarket sways. mountain run works good for me. i'm really interested to see how it goes but i have a feeling yours will feel better.

stop, my ego can't take much more...their just POS Ricelands :lol:

[mustangtomiata]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA i literally fell out of my chair! :lmao: anyway we'll organize this event soon, but I need to buy tires first.

[NA6R]

but I need to buy tires first.

I have some Chinesium Doral tires you can borrow....their smoke'n :lol:

[mustangtomiata]

lol what do you want me to do with them? drown someone?

[jzilla]

now that's comedy right there!


http://chzgifs.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/spandexdualityp1.gif

[amaff]

You callin me a dick? :lol:

[jzilla]

hahahhahhahahha.

that so did not come across right.

Some people don't use their brains.

It may be a good product, its just not for me. I'll keep my bislteins and chinese springs.

[NA6R]

Paging a mod with a mop and bucket.

[jzilla]

i was talking about the miata turbo thread.

[NA6R]

now that I can see the full size gif :ROLF:

[NA6R]

does anyone have a set of Racelands or Rokkor still in the box?

I need a weight of a front and rear shock assy. Without springs, nut, or top hats

[JEMERY]

I just ordered some, so I can weigh mine when I get them.

[NA6R]

I just ordered some, so I can weigh mine when I get them.

thx