eBay Coilovers!

[simontibbett]

I am going to put cut springs or eBay coilovers on my car, or cut the Teins, because that's how I roll!

[RotorNutFD3S]

Ok... And you enjoy a car that will not ride very well?

[simontibbett]

I track it, it already has metal bushings and a seam welded chassis it DOES NOT RIDE WELL NOW! lol!

[RotorNutFD3S]

OK, let me rephrase what I'm trying to say, You enjoy destroying the suspension on your car?

[simontibbett]

No, it will handle better then my Teins. FOR REAL!

$$ Doesn't MEAN QUALITY!

[RotorNutFD3S]

Not my point. You're destroying the suspension geometry by cutting the springs, or by installing eBay coilovers that WILL fail.

[simontibbett]

No they won't I have used them for years, I KNOW MANY IT GUYS WHO RUN THEM, THEY DON'T FAIL.

And as far as cutting springs, not ALWAYS bad if you know what you are doing, my 240 had cut springs and ride smoother then my friends S13 with full Tein coilovers.

[FE3tMX5]

You need to make sure the threaded collars have a tight fit on the shock body and the seat (ring). If not, the collars will split. This is the case with any aluminum threaded collar BUT the ebay pieces have a lot greater tolerance. And so far as the springs... well, if you're not competing then it's probably not a big deal if a 400# springs really rates at 381# - right? And if the collapse, well, that corner will just sit on the shock top. Or you can swap out the kit springs for real springs.

[simontibbett]

I am competing. And I might buy Eibach's to go on the collars. I have NEVER had a problem with them on any car.

[metalman]

Theyre great......








...for a Lemons car.
Having I owned a few sets, I would sooner run stock then use that crap.

[simontibbett]

Glad you think so.

But I have had great success with them.

Damn noob.

[FE3tMX5]

There's something to be said for buying and installing know entities on race cars. Even the good $tuff breaks on occasion. I've crashed from parts failure, so I personally wouldn't chance it with the collars on track.

[simontibbett]

Like I said, I have been using them without a problem, and know people who use them without a problem, I have read stories, but half these stories are from idiots who mis-use items.

[metalman]

I personally wouldn't chance it with the collars on track.

Yeah...that was the point. I wouldnt put JUNK on my car either.
Too many different reasons not too.
Ebay coilovers are best left to brokeass teenage ricers that need a 'drop' and
have no cash for quality suspension.

[simontibbett]

Yeah...that was the point. I wouldnt put JUNK on my car either.
Too many different reasons not too.
Ebay coilovers are best left to brokeass teenage ricers that need a 'drop' and
have no cash for quality suspension.

LOL right...a spring rate is a spring rate.

[metalman]

LOL right...a spring rate is a spring rate.

Yeah...problem is, you have no ******* clue what the spring rates are on
Ebay garbage overs....and if in fact they even match or are built to any reasonable
standard of quality....and from the various sets I have seen and owned, theyre NOT. ;)

But....if youre happy with crappy parts for your suspension setup, and they 'work' for you, thats cool with me.

[simontibbett]

Yeah...problem is, you have no ******* clue what the spring rates are on
Ebay garbage overs....and if in fact they even match or are built to any reasonable
standard of quality....and from the various sets I have seen and owned, theyre NOT. ;)

But....if youre happy with crappy parts for your suspension setup, and they 'work' for you, thats cool with me.

Well the ones I buy have the rates on the spring, and have been able to check one set and it was right.

Also like I said I could buy Eibach's to go on them. Just because it's not name brand does not make it ****. Don't be close minded.

[RotorNutFD3S]

He's not being close minded, he's sharing his experiences with cheap non-quality parts. If you check the parts, great. I think MetalMan has more experience with cars than you could imagine.

[simontibbett]

Maybe, but so do I. I have used over 10 sets of eBay coilovers, and have used Ground Controls, H&R, Tein, Eibach, etc.

I have yet to find a problem personally with the eBay coilovers, if I sold them on here as GC's NOBODY would complain if they bought and used them lol. Maybe the ones I buy are "better" then the ones he has used. Who knows.

[metalman]

Well the ones I buy have the rates on the spring, and have been able to check one set and it was right.

Also like I said I could buy Eibach's to go on them. Just because it's not name brand does not make it ****. Don't be close minded.

Hahaha...Have fun with your junk testing.
I am sure you will revolutionize the Miata world. :lol: NOT.

I need not to mess with crap. But, for $500 Lemons car...that ebay crapspension and a roller paint job would be perfect....and my preference actually.

[simontibbett]

Hahaha...Have fun with your junk testing.
I am sure you will revolutionize the Miata world. :lol: NOT.

I need not to mess with crap. But, for $500 Lemons car...that ebay crapspension and a roller paint job would be perfect....and my preference actually.

Hmm...yeah JUNK testing, it's such a big deal to test the rate of a said cheap spring for kicks...what's so bad about that? Didn't cost me a dime...

I COULD go buy GC's, but that's a track weekend, I could play with eBay's cheaper and spend the extra on playing. I'm not building a Lemons car.

[RotorNutFD3S]

Thread cleaned and reopened. Stay on topic please.

[deerock]

ebay coils work. may not be the best thing out there, but look at GC. without the eibachs its pretty much a red ebay sleeve with a different adjuster on it.

its affordable, it works, and its an easy install. so im gonna say go for it, im sure with the right spring combo it will be a decent setup.

[simontibbett]

True dat

[metalman]

ebay coils work. may not be the best thing out there, but look at GC. without the eibachs its pretty much a red ebay sleeve with a different adjuster on it.

i

GC sleeves are far superior to any ebay specials I have owned. Of course, there are better setups then GC too. Everything has a price.

But youre right, when your budget is next to nothing, or if your broke, live with your mom, have no money to spend or not the ability to scrounge affordable priced quality used suspension, they will "work' albeit not that well...but they will usually lower your car....in many cases. Some of the ebay coilvers dont even do that! :lol: One set I messed with wouldnt even go below stock ride height at the lowest setting. haha Others will put your car on the ground. Every set I have owned rode like crap too.

There is a set of lovely brand new Ebay coilovers made by chinese slave children on a car in my garage right now...theyre bound to be worth at least $20 on a good day...and they should work for Lemons use at least. In time I guess we'll see. :D

[simontibbett]

I already have a set.

And I am not broke, or any of the other things you said, like I said I could buy GC's, or use the eBay's and spend the extra $350 on a weekend at Road Atlanta.

[metalman]

I already have a set.

And I am not broke, or any of the other things you said, l.

Honestly, from your post, and your car, its kind of obvious that it does come down to budget.
And theres nothing wrong with that. If you like them great!

But...there are very good reasons why those who compete successfully in motorsports
do not generally use ebay coilovers...if they can afford otherwise. The same reasons exist for enthusiasts on the street. Period. That path has be trodden many many times. ;)

[jesseealexander]

i dont see why everyone is hating on ebay coilovers. the only downside to them is that the springs themselves are sometimes off a little in rate, the biggest difference ive seen was 15lbs. thats not really THAT much and most people wouldnt be able to tell a difference. everyone swears by gc coilovers, but guess what... theres barely any difference. the only thing that i would worry about is the sleeve not fitting on the shock perfectly, but that can easily be remedied by welding the sleeves to the shock or shimming it so it stays tight. you can order eibachs for pretty cheap and swap those out for the ebay springs, and there you go. you have coilovers with eibach springs and whatever shock you want to run, for close to half the price of gc coilovers.

at the end of the day, a sleeve is a sleeve. yeah, the spring/shock choice might be crap, but the sleeve itself isnt gonna change the way the car rides. 90% of the time if a car rides like crap its because its on stiffer springs and stock shocks which have no bound control at all and a weak rebound at that. if the shock cant keep up with the spring rate, thats what gives you a bad or "bouncy" ride.

and i would LOVE to hear the explanation for how cutting a spring changes the suspension geometry any different from a regular lowering spring, and how cutting it makes it softer. i know from experience that cutting any spring, especially a progressive rate spring stiffens the spring by 15-20 lbs instead of softening it. and if the springs are all cut in the same spot, the rates will all be nearly the exact same, maybe within 1lb of each other. and as far as the geometry goes, i was unaware that changing spring height also changes mounting points. wonder what crazy scientist figured that out, and what drugs he was using at the time.

[simontibbett]

Honestly, from your post, and your car, its kind of obvious that it does come down to budget.
And theres nothing wrong with that. If you like them great!

But...there are very good reasons why those who compete successfully in motorsports
do not generally use ebay coilovers...if they can afford otherwise. The same reasons exist for enthusiasts on the street. Period. That path has be trodden many many times. ;)

From my car? lol, why would I want to spend a lot of money to make it look really nice? Then wreck it into a wall racing it? That'd be smart.

I know TONS who compete successfully in motorsports on eBays, using Eibach springs, you can swap and buy springs from fellow racers for $30 all day long.

People really are blind when it comes to DIY work, budget work, etc. I know SPEED WC teams that were playing with cut springs in the 90's LOL, even cutting coilover springs and messing with rates that way. It's not ghetto to experiment. HAVE YOU PERSONALLY DRIVEN A MIATA ON EBAY COILOVERS AT ROAD ATLANTA AND HAD A BAD EXPERIENCE? NO.

[RotorNutFD3S]

eBay coilovers use cheap metal mixes in their collars. These metals breakdown faster under high stress, resulting in failure of the system.
If you want to risk running bandaids for something as critical as suspension, well, that's your call. A sleeve is not a sleeve when it doesn't fit correctly out of the box. That's why car-specific and universal is not the same.
Any changes to the suspension changes the geometry.
If you want to run shoddy suspension mods, go for it, but don't expect it to be widely accepted in the professional field, because it simply is not. The only thing you can do is brag how cheaply you have built a car, but then again, that will be apparent anyway.

[simontibbett]

And you know this HOW? From some dumb ricers on the internet crying that they put the sleeves ALL the way down hit a pothole at 80 and broke it?

I bet you hate Rotas too.

I am not trying to be ACCEPTED by anyone. Why the hell would I care about that??? I get accepted at the race track with eBay coilovers, just not from JDM hugging name brand junkies lol.

[jesseealexander]

eBay coilovers use cheap metal mixes in their collars. These metals breakdown faster under high stress, resulting in failure of the system.
If you want to risk running bandaids for something as critical as suspension, well, that's your call. A sleeve is not a sleeve when it doesn't fit correctly out of the box. That's why car-specific and universal is not the same.
Any changes to the suspension changes the geometry.
If you want to run shoddy suspension mods, go for it, but don't expect it to be widely accepted in the professional field, because it simply is not. The only thing you can do is brag how cheaply you have built a car, but then again, that will be apparent anyway.

thats why you make them fit... if you arent afraid to get your hands dirty its not a big deal.

and if changing spring length changes geometry, why are you allowed to change springs on IT cars, spec miatas, koni challenge st cars, etc when is specifically says in the rulebooks for ALL of those that there can be no changes to the stock suspension geometry? if it retains its factory range of motion and mounting points, you havent changed anything except how the parts work together, optimizing use of the factory geometry.


i bet you guys wont buy rotas either, huh?

[simontibbett]

thats why you make them fit... if you arent afraid to get your hands dirty its not a big deal.

and if changing spring length changes geometry, why are you allowed to change springs on IT cars, spec miatas, koni challenge st cars, etc when is specifically says in the rulebooks for ALL of those that there can be no changes to the stock suspension geometry? if it retains its factory range of motion and mounting points, you havent changed anything except how the parts work together, optimizing use of the factory geometry.


i bet you guys wont buy rotas either, huh?

Exactly lol

[RotorNutFD3S]

No, because I've dealt with Chinese metals at work and see how crappy they are. Oh, and from trying 17 different suspension combinations with my Saturn since there used to be no aftermarket support for them. Guess what, using an eBay coilover system in a manner comparable to a quality setup still caused them to fail or ride like complete a**.

I don't hate any wheel, I run f***ing SportMax wheels...

I didn't say that you needed to be accepted, I said the method is not accepted. Read, then post, it works better. There is no truly serious professional company or team that uses such methods and put their cars on the track.

[simontibbett]

Yes there is lol, go to an SCCA race.

Ride quality is NOT bad. NO idea why you all say that, your suspension setups must be HORRIBLY soft.

You had a bad experience, with a SATURN lol, I have had nothing but good experiences, with everything BUT a SATURN.

[jesseealexander]

No, because I've dealt with Chinese metals at work and see how crappy they are. Oh, and from trying 17 different suspension combinations with my Saturn since there used to be no aftermarket support for them. Guess what, using an eBay coilover system in a manner comparable to a quality setup still caused them to fail or ride like complete a**.

I don't hate any wheel, I run f***ing SportMax wheels...

I didn't say that you needed to be accepted, I said the method is not accepted. Read, then post, it works better. There is no truly serious professional company or team that uses such methods and put their cars on the track.

lol calm down... no need for cussing and getting pissed.

the point simon and i are making is that you CAN use cheaper stuff and with a little more effort and actual thinking involved, make them perform just as well as the "quality" stuff. your saturn probably rode like balls because the shocks couldnt keep up with the stiffness of the springs, causing it to bounce alot and wear out the shocks alot faster. what shocks were you running? and if they failed, its probably because just like most people who use them, they just slide the sleeve onto the shock without actually securing it in any way, causing friction and eventually failure.

and the wheel quote wasnt directed only towards you. your car looks good on those wheels, and for a miata i think thats pretty hard to do. i usuall dont like 0 offset on miatas unless the have flares.

[RotorNutFD3S]

thats why you make them fit... if you arent afraid to get your hands dirty its not a big deal.

and if changing spring length changes geometry, why are you allowed to change springs on IT cars, spec miatas, koni challenge st cars, etc when is specifically says in the rulebooks for ALL of those that there can be no changes to the stock suspension geometry? if it retains its factory range of motion and mounting points, you havent changed anything except how the parts work together, optimizing use of the factory geometry.

I don't care about getting my hands dirty, I like the piece of mind that comes with knowing that the parts I bought aren't going to fail because they're cheap pieces of crap.

Any time you make a change to your suspension, such as springs, it's dimensional, which affects the geometry. Altering springs does change the factory range of motion as well, don't see how you can't see that.
As for the rulebook and people changing their springs, there's probably some information being omitted there.

[RotorNutFD3S]

You had a bad experience, with a SATURN lol, I have had nothing but good experiences, with everything BUT a SATURN.

I love that response, made dominating people with such thoughts with that car a million times more enjoyable. I guess you haven't seen one on a track either. It's no Miata, but it's funny the cars it can outhandle.

[MeFryRice]

If you don't care about being accepted on here, then why did you create this lame thread? Apparently our opinions do matter to you...

I would never put anything as cheap as eBay coilovers on my car. Period. I have driven a DC2 in auto-x that had them installed and they were bouncy as ****. Why not spend the extra money to buy quality parts that were built to work together PROPERLY the first time and save yourself the hassle in the long run?

[simontibbett]

I love that response, made dominating people with such thoughts with that car a million times more enjoyable. I guess you haven't seen one on a track either. It's no Miata, but it's funny the cars it can outhandle.

Actually I have they used to dominate in Showroom Stock.

[simontibbett]

If you don't care about being accepted on here, then why did you create this lame thread? Apparently our opinions do matter to you...

I would never put anything as cheap as eBay coilovers on my car. Period. I have driven a DC2 in auto-x that had them installed and they were bouncy as ****. Why not spend the extra money to buy quality parts that were built to work together PROPERLY the first time and save yourself the hassle in the long run?

So you WANT to be accepted somewhere? Who cares? Like said, that car may have had them installed wrong, especially the shock setting. I mean do you understand suspension? You do know road race cars have 800+lbs spring rates right?

[RotorNutFD3S]

Actually I have they used to dominate in Showroom Stock.

Then why would you respond with such a close-minded response? Clearly, you cannot grasp the concept of reading, then thinking, and then posting.

[jesseealexander]

If you don't care about being accepted on here, then why did you create this lame thread? Apparently our opinions do matter to you...

I would never put anything as cheap as eBay coilovers on my car. Period. I have driven a DC2 in auto-x that had them installed and they were bouncy as ****. Why not spend the extra money to buy quality parts that were built to work together PROPERLY the first time and save yourself the hassle in the long run?

and what kind of shocks did it have?


changing spring length changes the geometry of the part of the suspension that changes constantly, no matter what. the same basic geometry is used, the control arms will still give you the same range of motion, the dynamic camber and toe changes will be the same as they were before because the suspension uses the same radii to move. the only drastic change will be in the roll centers of the car because the COG will be lower in most cases, and the deg of body roll will change because of the springs stiffness.

[MeFryRice]

So you WANT to be accepted somewhere? Who cares? Like said, that car may have had them installed wrong, especially the shock setting. I mean do you understand suspension? You do know road race cars have 800+lbs spring rates right?

Do I want to be accepted here? I sure as hell don't want to be close minded like yourself and come across as a prick to everyone else.

Do I understand suspension?? :lolol: I have fooled with more suspension setups then you may think so don't question me on this.

The car did NOT have the suspension installed wrong as this car was built for track use and the owner had decided to test the eBay junkies for ****s and giggles.

[MeFryRice]

and what kind of shocks did it have?


changing spring length changes the geometry of the part of the suspension that changes constantly, no matter what. the same basic geometry is used, the control arms will still give you the same range of motion, the dynamic camber and toe changes will be the same as they were before because the suspension uses the same radii to move. the only drastic change will be in the roll centers of the car because the COG will be lower in most cases, and the deg of body roll will change because of the springs stiffness.

He was running Koni's.

That why I had stated in a previous post, why not spend the money to buy a setup that was engineered to work together.

[jesseealexander]

i like how nobody on here can have an intelligent argument without cutting the other person down. its alot like this other forum i know if...

[simontibbett]

Yeah, me having a conversation about eBay coilovers makes me a prick LOL.

WELL if you understand suspension you would understand this isn't really that dumb.

As for your friend, I have NO clue why it would have been like that. More then likely the rates were less, he could have adjusted the shocks to work and everything else?

[jesseealexander]

He was running Koni's.

That why I had stated in a previous post, why not spend the money to buy a setup that was engineered to work together.

konis are only good up to about 400lb springs, then they need to be revalved to be able to keep up. how low was the car?

[simontibbett]

i like how nobody on here can have an intelligent argument without cutting the other person down. its alot like this other forum i know if...

IA? lol

If it's not name brand it SUCKS and you DIAF

[MeFryRice]

konis are only good up to about 400lb springs, then they need to be revalved to be able to keep up. how low was the car?

These were custom valved Koni's. Not your off the shelf part.

[simontibbett]

These were custom valved Koni's. Not your off the shelf part.

Well something wasn't setup right. What springs did he have before?

The kit was assembled properly by a race shop (I will not say which shop though). He was running a GC sleeve kit before hand.

[MeFryRice]

IA? lol

If it's not name brand it SUCKS and you DIAF

Your the one that is coming on there creating posts as if this was IA. We would like to see threads that are educational. Yes, this thread could be useful if you were not so close-minded about what others have to say.

[simontibbett]

NOBODY in here has said anything OPEN MINDED except for me and Jessee, all you all have said is it's crap. I have had Ground Controls, they felt the exact same as properly used eBays to me, I have had H&R, I have had Eibach, I have Tein, etc. Name brand does not MEAN anything.

[RotorNutFD3S]

Simon, change your sig now. This is not a request. I don't care why it's there, I'm going to handle all that. This thread is about to get closed again because debating here as adults does not seem possible.

As far as it appears to everyone else, everyone has been open minded except you because you are not willing to accept that we all have tried the cheap method of suspension mods (and you're not the only one with experience here), and have all found that other things work better, name brand or not. You keep posting because you want your method to be accepted. If you didn't care, you would not be arguing so hard.

[simontibbett]

It's interesting to argue you see, because that's how you learn things, it's constructive. People say it's cheap it's ****. Nobody gives reasons. Oh wow a bumpy Integra. That says a lot.

Why the hell would I change my sig? I guess you mean the name brand part?

[RotorNutFD3S]

Arguing, debating, whatever you want to call it is fine. Reasons have been provided for both sides. When you start saying that someone doesn't know what they're talking about, you've moved from constructional argument into a personal attack, which is completely unacceptable and childish.

Yeah, that part.

[simontibbett]

I didn't say anyone was stupid or wrong, but it seems nobody is willing to listen and see. Car will be at Road Atlanta in Feb. you all feel free to come see what happens. If my suspension breaks we can all laugh.

[RotorNutFD3S]

WELL if you understand suspension you would understand this isn't really that dumb.

Your own words, as I said, saying someone doesn't know what they're talking about moves it from a debate to a personal attack.

[MeFryRice]

But when we indicate that we have previously used the eBay stuff, you come back stating that it was improperly installed?! I have played with numerous suspension setups and know how the suspension works pretty damn well I must say (not trying to sound cocky).

I am ALWAYS willing to learn.

[simontibbett]

Simply put, if you want to tell real life stories, please do. If you used them, didn't like them, say why, talk about the setup it was on, but don't just bash someone and think they are poor because they want to try something different and play around with it, I personally like learning about cars and racing setups even if it ends up failing horribly. If you can only speak from websites saying they suck they broke, stuff like that, that helps nobody.

[metalman]

At then end of the day it all comes down to materials, (as Eric pointed out) standards of quality, and BUDGET. And those who wish to race competitively generally avoid products of questionable materials, standards, and tolerances....ie. Ebay coilovers and stick with proven setups. People like the Pombos who hold the track record at RA in their class (last I checked) dont use second rate parts. Also, those who wish to maintain a similar level of standard for the street car will do the same...as dictated by their BUDGET....which everyone has.

It would be one thing to say Rota makes a decent wheel for the money. It would be quite another to imply they make the best rims in the world...or as good as any. That would be false. For $20-40 an Ebay coilover is fine....but its just that, a cheap part...and cheaply made...but it can sometimes be made to "work" in certain circumstances where that standard of quality is all thats required...or affordable to the user.

[Doppelgänger]

You can also force a square peg in a round hole if you try hard enough..does that make it right? "Making" something work because it wasn't built to spec. is just cheap... and belongs at places like LeMons where quality means nothing. I'd love to see the reaction to asking a professional team if they would use generic $20 collars and perches.

Cheap parts, for cheap people.

[simontibbett]

I CAN go buy GC's...but what's the fun in that?

True, I never really said you can make eBay's BETTER then GC, you might be able to be just as fast, in fact I know you can, I never had a problem keeping up with GC coilover cars with a eBay coilover setup.

DO REMEMBER, I said USING THE eBay PERCHES and buying Eibach springs. THAT will result in the EXACT same results. If they are made of cheaper material, I have yet to see one fail. Have you in person out of curiosity? I've seen many things online, as I have seen Rotas break "online" all that good stuff where you don't know the conditions the part was broken.

If I was building a race winning SM or IT car I of course would NOT put eBay's on, and follow a proven race winning lead. But I know people who can finish top 5 in IT and run eBay perches with Eibach springs. Totally acceptable in the club racing world to some people, doesn't make you cheap, just saving money, that CANNOT be called dumb lol.

[metalman]

If I was building a race winning SM or IT car I of course would NOT put eBay's on, and follow a proven race winning lead.

Good then, we all agree, it not smart or advisable at all to use second rate suspension parts made by chinese slave children on a first rate car...whether track or street....which was the point all along.
So glad we cleared that up.

[simontibbett]

Well I make my car first rate for what I use it for, and they will be on it. I am actually talked OUT of buying GC's now.

On a side note, my friend got some for his older 88-91 Civic 4 door, and we put them on, but cranked them up to the stock height so it just was a little stiffer. Anyway it rides EXACTLY the same as stock, maybe a TADDD stiffer. But he takes the car off roading like a bat out of hell I mean river crossings, 80mph on dirt roads, pot holes, etc. This was over a year ago and not a single issue. Just another real world experience.

[jesseealexander]

i really just dont see a problem in using ebay coilovers for sleeves. GC's ARE made to fit the application with no problems, but with a little but of effort you can make ebays fit without play as well. IMO thats more worth it anyways. the springs in the ebay kits arent nearly as good as eibachs, h&rs, or even teins, but thats a cheap and easy swap. 90% of the time when you see ebay kits fail or you see dissatisfied users of the kits, its because of other circumstances (i.e. lazy installs, stock or incapable aftermarket shocks, etc...). like simon said, theres plenty of VERY competitive IT cars on these kits with the right modifications that work very well, if not as well as a reputable name brand kit. most of the ebay kits are made of the same aluminum as GC, but the failures are due to not installing them properly and leaving play between the shock body and the coilover itself. bouncy ride isnt caused my a stiff spring itself, its caused by the spring being too stiff for the shock and the shock not being able to keep up with the spring.

[deerock]

lol calm down... no need for cussing and getting pissed.

the point simon and i are making is that you CAN use cheaper stuff and with a little more effort and actual thinking involved, make them perform just as well as the "quality" stuff. your saturn probably rode like balls because the shocks couldnt keep up with the stiffness of the springs, causing it to bounce alot and wear out the shocks alot faster. what shocks were you running? and if they failed, its probably because just like most people who use them, they just slide the sleeve onto the shock without actually securing it in any way, causing friction and eventually failure.

and the wheel quote wasnt directed only towards you. your car looks good on those wheels, and for a miata i think thats pretty hard to do. i usuall dont like 0 offset on miatas unless the have flares.

same thing i was getting at. brand name isnt always quality. its the time and effort spent to make those brand name parts work and perform well that makes quality.

[metalman]

brand name isnt always quality. its the time and effort spent to make those brand name parts work and perform well that makes quality.

I think you should put your money where your mouth is....I'll trade you a 'high quality' Ebay coilover setup, 'race proven' by cheap bastards, for your crappy name brand jdm yo tite Stance setup.....hell, I'll even throw in an extra set of Ebay coils and Ebay 'mazdaspeed' steering wheel. :lol:

[jesseealexander]

I think you should put your money where your mouth is....I'll trade you a 'high quality' Ebay coilover setup, 'race proven' by cheap bastards, for your crappy name brand jdm yo tite Stance setup.....hell, I'll even throw in an extra set of Ebay coils and Ebay 'mazdaspeed' steering wheel. :lol:

LOL

[simontibbett]

I think you should put your money where your mouth is....I'll trade you a 'high quality' Ebay coilover setup, 'race proven' by cheap bastards, for your crappy name brand jdm yo tite Stance setup.....hell, I'll even throw in an extra set of Ebay coils and Ebay 'mazdaspeed' steering wheel. :lol:

Says the old man with a girls car.

[FE3tMX5]

I'd be less concerned about the fit of one vs. the other, and more concerned about the materials integrity and machining specs. I'd hardly say that rough driving in a honda civic is the same as 2,000 Spec Miatas on track twenty weekends per year (not to mention the few thousand other cars racing on the GC stuff).

I had a steering rack loose a tooth coming through turn 12 at Rd. Atl at peak G load. I was lucky not to hit the wall (at the time it was tires and a clay embankment). The tooth snapped at peak load, and the car instantly tracked out a couple of widths and I found myself underneath the starter stand at 100mph with the smell of clay invading the car. A collapsed left front suspension would have been a little more dramatic.

I think it's experiences like that, which forms a racers approach to his sport. Driving them on the street is less of an issue IMO... but I don't drive on the street like I do on the track.

[metalman]

I'd be less concerned about the fit of one vs. the other, and more concerned about the materials integrity and machining specs. I'd hardly say that rough driving in a honda civic is the same as 2,000 Spec Miatas on track twenty weekends per year (not to mention the few thousand other cars racing on the GC stuff).

.

Yep. My thoughts exactly.
The set in my garage right now even looks 'iffy' in terms of machining/materials just upon visual inspection alone.
But for the $ thats about par for the course.

[jesseealexander]

although i see what point is being made, i dont think that spec classes can really be valid ammunition in this argument because they all are required to use the same suspension. not just SM, but ANY spec class. hell, SE30 uses h&r race springs and bilstien shocks lol.

i know of SEVERAL competitive IT cars on ebay sleeves used in conjunction with different springs/shocks that have never had any problem with the sleeves themselves.

[simontibbett]

I'd be less concerned about the fit of one vs. the other, and more concerned about the materials integrity and machining specs. I'd hardly say that rough driving in a honda civic is the same as 2,000 Spec Miatas on track twenty weekends per year (not to mention the few thousand other cars racing on the GC stuff).

I had a steering rack loose a tooth coming through turn 12 at Rd. Atl at peak G load. I was lucky not to hit the wall (at the time it was tires and a clay embankment). The tooth snapped at peak load, and the car instantly tracked out a couple of widths and I found myself underneath the starter stand at 100mph with the smell of clay invading the car. A collapsed left front suspension would have been a little more dramatic.

I think it's experiences like that, which forms a racers approach to his sport. Driving them on the street is less of an issue IMO... but I don't drive on the street like I do on the track.

For one the "eBay coilovers" have about 50 different companies who make them, some are cheap crap, others are the exact same perches as GC. For my friend that's one example, my previous Civic had them, and it was tracked NUMEROUS times including daily driving, mountain runs, road trips, etc.

I have had part failures, I had a tie rod come OFF at 80mph in the middle of a turn. If experiences like that SCARE you, then you are in the wrong sport. Sure invest in parts with more success, but **** breaks, that's racing, if you don't think you will crash, never crash, are scared, bye bye lol.

[simontibbett]

although i see what point is being made, i dont think that spec classes can really be valid ammunition in this argument because they all are required to use the same suspension. not just SM, but ANY spec class. hell, SE30 uses h&r race springs and bilstien shocks lol.

i know of SEVERAL competitive IT cars on ebay sleeves used in conjunction with different springs/shocks that have never had any problem with the sleeves themselves.

..and that IS my point exactly.

[metalman]

although i see what point is being made, i dont think that spec classes can really be valid ammunition in this argument because they all are required to use the same suspension. .

Well there is no question that ebay parts are preferred by teens everywhere. :lol:

But seriously, one reason spec classes regulate one specific component or another, or sometimes change rules accordingly, is that the said component is known to be of consistent quality....whereas ebay parts are not.

[simontibbett]

LOL that's not the reason.

[metalman]

Consistency of performance to level the playing field has everything to do with spec classes.
And, if problems arise, rules/specs are subject to change. Safety isnt totally ignored.
One could not really allow ebay suspension in a spec class because there is no consistency.

There are always far more 'run what ya brung' type 'crap' parts used in more open classes...within reason of course, because successful winning teams usually tend to gravitate toward proven quality parts.

[simontibbett]

No ****, there are no real named companies for eBay coilovers, they all make totally different products. I've seen ******* plastic perches for some.

And of course they won't use eBay coilovers what would the rulebook have a eBay link? lol.