Timing belt

[thx712517]

I'm sitting at just a tick under 51,000 miles, so I figure it's time to start saving up for a timing belt change. From reading around on Miata.net it'll be the belt, associated pulleys, water pump, accessory belts, valve cover gasket, and some kind of cam seal?

What shops do you recommend? I emailed Mazcare and they told me over $1800 in parts and labor, I'm not too keen on that. I emailed R-Speed on Monday morning and haven't heard back from 'em yet. I've yet to call Jim Ellis. So, recommendations? Suggestions? Stuff to get done at the same time?

[ben91]

If you insist on doing the belt on schedule (I actually do not believe that the TB should be replaced until at least 70k miles, if not more), I recommend you take it to my dad's shop. Atlanta Import Auto in Lawrenceville.

You do the belt, water pump, cam seals, crank seals, radiator hoses, and few other small things. Good time to go ahead and do the heater core hoses if you want.

[thx712517]

Unlike everyone else on this board, apparently, I live in Marietta. If I can't find anything else though, I'll keep it in mind.

[metalman]

I wouldnt even consider doing a TB until at least 100k.

$1800????? Holy crap!! No way on that for me.

[thx712517]

100K? Even on an autocrossed car? I mean it'd be great 'cause it'd save me some money (and no way am I going to Mazcare) but I'd be worried about breaking the belt at an inopportune moment.

[amaff]

wow... I did my own (without replacing the cam seals or front main seals because they weren't leaking a bit and a pain in the balls to do) w/ a new water pump for half that. I tell you what, get the timing belt kit from mazda (preferably mazda motorsports) and a new water pump and we'll knock that thing out in my garage one weekend for <$300 and some pizza and beer ;)

Then again, most timing belt intervals are either 60k or 100k, so honestly you don't need to worry about it terribly.

[ben91]

I think 100K is pushing it on the water pump, but 80-90K yeah no problem.

[thx712517]

Well dang Andrew, I just might have to hunt you down in 10,000-15,000 miles and take you up on the offer.

[amaff]

Well dang Andrew, I just might have to hunt you down in 10,000-15,000 miles and take you up on the offer.

For something like this it's not even really worth the $$. Especially on the miata, it's not a hard job. While you're there tho, the easy stuff def. needs to be replaced: valve cover gasket, and the 3 radiator hoses (upper, and the lower that goes to the hard pipe, then the one between the hard pipe and the block). From mazda motorsports, this stuff is srsly cheap. I had my water pump go out unexpectedly on a Friday so I had to make do with NAPA parts (had a test and tune that I missed because of this and an event on Sunday). The first time it took some time as any job does the first time you do it. When I set the timing on the new engine it took about 15 minutes LOL

[thx712517]

I've already got two of the radiator hoses from when I put in my swaybar that never got around to getting installed. Is the Mazdaspeed Motorsports kit better than Flyin' Miata's?

[amaff]

I've already got two of the radiator hoses from when I put in my swaybar that never got around to getting installed. Is the Mazdaspeed Motorsports kit better than Flyin' Miata's?

Couldn't tell you what flyin' miata's has. The MMD kit has the belt and both pulleys. If I were a bettin' man I'd be willing to wager that the mazdaspeed kit's going to be cheaper lol

[RotorNutFD3S]

Yeah, even Rosenthal is cheaper than FM.
And this is definitely a job that you can accomplish by yourself or with a friend on a weekend. It's not that bad, it's just intimidating the first time around. :)

[adjake]

Sounds like a good get together install day so we can all learn from the more experienced. Did mine at 80000 (the cheater way) or so and it showed no sign that it would break any time soon. Stretched, maybe? No cracks or anything.

[metalman]

I think 100K is pushing it on the water pump, but 80-90K yeah no problem.

Oh horse****. :D I have never had a WP fail...and the ones I have seen fail have done so at way over 100k. You guys sound like m.netters! :lol:
The service interval on Cali cars is over 100k. You think the cars driven here are different? I dont think so. I have had one TB snap in tons of miles logged on Miatas...and that car had 150k on it, was a 1990 with original parts, and the car had sat for over 3 yrs in a bad climate for dry rot. Even then the WP was fine, but I replaced it anyway. Nearly every Miata timing belt I have inspected was perfect. Lack of use, time, and climate kills the TB before miles does. ;) But...if you want to change perfectly good belts on a NON interference engine just for fun, be my guest. But I wouldnt.

[thx712517]

Man, I must be betraying my Miata.net heritage! I better seek help before I go on a rant about Bilsteins or start planning an antique shop run...

[metalman]

If it makes you feel better my 99 has 106k on it, and has never had a TB or WP.
If there IS a car I might expect the TB to break on its this one, because it sat for over 3 years without even being cranked. Plus the accessory belts were dry rotted which is never a great sign. Nevertheless, you think I worry?? Hell no. If it snaps the car will die just like a kill switch was flipped. And then I'll spend the menial amount needed and replace the parts myself. ;)

[redrumracer]

well i got my car with 110k on it and dont thing the belt was changed then, and now im at 155k and still havent changed it. not sure if it has ever been changed tho. besides we dont have an interference engine so if it pops no biggie.

[Otto]

seems like most of us are willing to help out, im certainly not afraid of doing it myself:lol:

[ben91]

Sorry chief, I HAVE seen failed water pumps. Water pumps almost always fail before the timing belt breaks, and I've seen my share of 90-100K pumps that leak. I'd go in there to replace the water pump, and do the timing belt just because I'm already there. A water pump problem can and will ruin your engine. A timing belt problem might not ruin your engine, but it will ruin your day.

If memory serves, the CA service interval is 90K.

You'll never see any damage to the TB. They all look good until the day they snap. My dad picked up a 90 with 175k that snapped its original belt. But that seems to be more of the exception than the rule. The water pumps are pretty cheap.


Oh horse****. :D I have never had a WP fail...and the ones I have seen fail have done so at way over 100k. You guys sound like m.netters! :lol:
The service interval on Cali cars is over 100k. You think the cars driven here are different? I dont think so. I have had one TB snap in tons of miles logged on Miatas...and that car had 150k on it, was a 1990 with original parts, and the car had sat for over 3 yrs in a bad climate for dry rot. Even then the WP was fine, but I replaced it anyway. Nearly every Miata timing belt I have inspected was perfect. Lack of use, time, and climate kills the TB before miles does. ;) But...if you want to change perfectly good belts on a NON interference engine just for fun, be my guest. But I wouldnt.

[Grantri]

$1800!?!? Thats NUTS

The water pump (reman with 20K on it according to the paperwork in the car) on the wife's 92 died in Valdosta as she was driving to Florida. Nothing to do but limp it to the local Mazda dealer. They did TB & WP (no cam or crank seals..grrr but no leaks either.i) for just under $800 and shuttled my wife & son to a hotel.

[RotorNutFD3S]

The timing belt on my car looked perfect for ~95k miles. The water pump however was leaking badly and well on it's way to failure. I've got pictures of it and the oil seepage from the front main seal, made a huge, ugly gooey mess.

[metalman]

Time and maintenance are the biggest factor...not a magic mile number. ;)

[Doppelgänger]

Funny how CA service recommends the TB change at 100k.. and the part number for the timing belt is for the same belt as every other Miata. I had a TB break when I was up in Blairsville once.. and the car had 170k on it (I think the TB was done around 65k). The cause for the TB break was that the front seal had been leaking and the oil weakened the TB..... and the only reaso nthe front seal was leaking is because I switched to synthetic oil at 120k..and then the seal started leaking badly. Oddly enough, the water pump never gave me problems. I just changed out the TB and pulleys.

[metalman]

Yep, Cali required such parts to be 'warranted' for 100k.

[drumbeater]

I bought my car because the shop here in Augusta told the guy it would be $1800 for a water pump and timing belt. I found it about a 3/4 gallon low on coolant, filled it up and ran it for 15 minutes or so. The needle never went past 12 oclock. I think it had an air bubble or stuck tstat or something. I haven't seen a drip out of the water pump yet.

I ordered the timing belt kit off Ebay for $157. Comes with TB, accessory belts, pulley, gaskets, cam and crank seals, and a NPW water pump.

John

[thx712517]

R-Speed is quoting $1100 for the job, just in case anyone was curious.

[amaff]

R-Speed is quoting $1100 for the job, just in case anyone was curious.

good lord. Including parts I hope... but still. It simply doesn't take that much time on a miata. A couple hours, sure. Hell, I paid $550 or so back when I was a silly n00b on my old Mercury Tracer, which was FWD / Transverse engine and MUCH more of a pain in the balls.

[RotorNutFD3S]

GOOD GRIEF!!! That's way too expensive!

[adjake]

R-Speed is quoting $1100 for the job, just in case anyone was curious.

thats just crazy talk

[metalman]

R-Speed is quoting $1100 for the job, just in case anyone was curious.
$700 cheaper then Mazcare...;)...but about $300 more then I thought it would be.

Why dont you do it yourself? Its really not hard. Or better yet, wait until a more appropriate amount of miles/use/time
has been reached before messing with it.

[thx712517]

I've decided to wait until 75,000 miles or so, dependent on the condition of the water pump, before attempting it myself with the assistance of others. I might stretch it longer, depending on my financial condition. I may go ahead and replace the valve cover gasket soon though, I'm noticing a bit of a burnt oil smell and I'm seeing some residue between the cover and the head, near the dipstick tube.

[Synthmob]

Add me to the deferred list that would like to swap mine out maybe early this spring... I know I'm living in the danger zone... :)

Before I got around to having them put my car on the rack, when Cool Cat was in business, they quoted me just over $400 for parts and labor...

[Grantri]

Damn... I need to start a Miata Timing Belt service...$1100-$1800 is outrageous.

I have no problem with a shop making an honest profit but figure $250 in parts and 4 hours labor (we did mine first time in under 3). Prices quoted reflect an hourly labor rate between $200-$390 AN HOUR..Yeouch!

[simontibbett]

Wow, people charge a lot to do a two hour quick job.

[amaff]

Damn... I need to start a Miata Timing Belt service...$1100-$1800 is outrageous.

I have no problem with a shop making an honest profit but figure $250 in parts and 4 hours labor (we did mine first time in under 3). Prices quoted reflect an hourly labor rate between $200-$390 AN HOUR..Yeouch!

No **** dude, I'm in the wrong business!

[Doppelgänger]

Oh the stories on m.net about what people pay for service.....

[RotorNutFD3S]

We should get a group together that goes to people's houses to do the work on their Miatas that they either don't want to do themselves, or don't want to pay astrnomical amounts to do. Charge less and make some money...

[mustangtomiata]

I am down.

[simontibbett]

Me 3

[metalman]

We should get a group together that goes to people's houses to do the work on their Miatas that they either don't want to do themselves, or don't want to pay astrnomical amounts to do. Charge less and make some money...

Using genuine Mazda parts (as both these shops probably do) will run roughly $350 ish...if you change the timing belt, WP, tensioners, cam seals, CAS O ring, cam cover gasket, accessory belts, etc. Having watched Hector do a few of these in the old days at RSpeed I know someone of his, or similar, meticulous nature doesnt do the job in an hour either. I have swapped a TB that quick, but I too sure would want to be much more particular when its being done to a 'customer' car. Plus all shops have overhead...something that they must add into the mix...and something none of us has to worry about much when working on our own cars. They also must figure their warranty aspect. My experience with both these shops is they do tend to stand behind their work and whether people realize it or not, that is a cost factor the customer must pay for. There is liability involved when you work on others cars...unlike your own.

If one was to do such work on peoples cars you would soon find that similar 'costs' would need to be built in as well...or you would soon find yourself working for next to free. :lol:
Not saying it needs to be $1800...LOL...just pointing out some facts.

[RotorNutFD3S]

Oh, I know. :) I thought about all that, it was just an off-the-wall idea, it's like what I do by installing mobile electronics on the side (although I am MECP and Installer certified to do that).
But it's just as simple to say no warranty implied, some people won't like that, some people won't care. Especially when they feel reassured that you know what you are doing. I know the job takes time, but it's still not all that complicated, even for an OCD individual such as myself. It would still be fun to offer the services and see if anyone bites. I won't complain about extra income right now.

[metalman]

But it's just as simple to say no warranty implied, some people won't like that, some people won't care. .
Probably part of that equation is to 'pick' your customers too.
Some folks, even if told that, will make your life hell if there is something they dont like.
Some will even blame you for all manner of unrelated issues etc.
People like RSpeed deal with that by making them happy and charging accordingly.

I have often been asked to work on Miatas...but usually I decline as I dont like the liability. Once in a while I take a job for the right person.

[RotorNutFD3S]

My point Ed Zachary. Well, I'm not going to actively advertise it. I still have yet to reassemble my own car, and that's going to take enough time as it is. :lol:

[simontibbett]

I hate working on other peoples cars. When I used to work for a race team I had to mess with some wheels for a Porsche, they were painted and needed the paint sanded off in some spots because it wasn't seating correctly, well they had the 6 Hours of the Glenn or w/e this weekend and I was watching it on TV, they said if I bore the wheel too much it will be useless, too little it will still have the same issue. Well I turned it on right when the wheel fell off LMFAO, but it wasn't my fault, driver contacted another car side to side and broke the studs LOLOL. I was in OH CRAP mode for a minute.

[metalman]

I still have yet to reassemble my own car, and that's going to take enough time as it is. :lol:

I got one that needs assembled too!! Hmmm...perhaps a "Tom Sawyer" type tech day is the key. :lol: