What have YOU got done? And how do you like it?

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

I'm completely stock still in terms of performance mods, but whenever I get money I want to put it into the car. So what have you fella's done and was it worth the money?

[caseyfoster]

Ok nvm, didnt see the topic. I thought you were talking about overall performance mods. ~_~

[thx712517]

I've got a stack of mufflers in my boiler room that I cycle through whenever I feel like it. Stock one came off as soon as I bought the car, replaced by one off of a Mazdaspeed Miata which sounds a bit more aggressive. I've got an Enthuza XR Lightweight for race days that is just freaking painful, so it stays off for the most part.

Now, if I bumped up into CSP, I know I'd love to install an RB 4:1 header, a Flyin' Miata midpipe, and their single tip muffler, then throw in a lightweight clutch and flywheel. Although they say that the Miata engine responds better to forced induction, so maybe I need to look into SM2.

[caseyfoster]

Turbo > N/A

[thx712517]

That's true, but I like N/A! I'm screwed up in the head like that.

[caseyfoster]

You need to convince jack to boost his miata, or supercharge it or something~~~~

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

Nahh you ain't screwed up in the head. Casey is. He's yet to experience the glory of a NA powerband. It's nice driving without the hand of god suddenly smacking you. I've been thinking of checking out some different mufflers, not sure where to start though. I really do quite like the stock tone on the NA8.

[caseyfoster]

I drive my moms beamer everyday, and it blows.

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

If you gave that beamer the same horsepower but through a turbo... well then it really would blow.

[simontibbett]

I have:

RB header
AFM delete
Cat delete
HKS filter and intake relocated
Megasquirt PNP ECU

...that's it engine wise I think. I am doing ITB's slowly. They aren't really priority. The car is quick enough for me and what I do. I would like some more power but nothing crazy. Around 160-170 would be really good.

[thx712517]

Are you using a kit for the ITBs, or are you building something up yourself? I'm definitely jealous of all the OBD I cars that can get away with standalones.

[simontibbett]

Nope, making them. Using a stock Miata intake manifold, cutting it, and using GSXR600 throttle bodies.

[caseyfoster]

Simon good luck with the ITB's you should take pictures as you go along and make a DYI thread in here so others can do the same. Would be a great addition to the website.

[simontibbett]

Will do, just gotta get back on to working on them lol. I only need a few misc. bits, and a weekend to get it all together.

[redrumracer]

I have half an exhaust, and well thats all i'd consider performance. and slowly piecing a turbo kit.

[metalman]

I'm definitely jealous of all the OBD I cars that can get away with standalones.



Reason number 3,466 why NAs are better then NBs hehehe..... ;)

[redrumracer]

Are you using a kit for the ITBs, or are you building something up yourself? I'm definitely jealous of all the OBD I cars that can get away with standalones.


megasquirt it, there is a guy on the miata turbo forum that has a full standalone megasquirt on his nb. or if you have deep pockets you can always go for the hydra.

[redrumracer]

I'm definitely jealous of all the OBD I cars that can get away with standalones.



Reason number 3,466 why NAs are better then NBs hehehe..... ;)

none pop up headlights. my #1 reason why NB's are better :)

[simontibbett]

Anymore reasons....?

.......nope ;)

[caseyfoster]

Anymore reasons....?

.......nope ;)


Can has turbo?

[Roadster]

That's true, but I like N/A! I'm screwed up in the head like that.


I'm with ya on that one.

Mostly.

Actually I went through the entire list of parts I needed to get to build a high comp. all motor 1.6 since I can do all the machining at work (which is usually the main expense for most people). Was planning to pretty much clean out the FM catalog with Wiseco pistons, Carillo rods...cams, solid lifters, port matching, port the intake runners, unshroud the valves, good valve job, and a Megasquirt to let it rev. But all of that would make it a ***** to drive on the street, it'd be so high strung.

Then I realized I'd have about the same horsepower as a stock boost Jackson blower, but wouldn't have the torque to match.

So in the interest of bang for the buck, I'm slowly saving up for the stoopercharger instead. And it retains the linear powerband that makes the Miata such a blast to drive. Not to mention...blower whine owns my soul.

[redrumracer]

and just imagine, you once had a "stoopercharger" right?

[Roadster]

Yeah, one of those oddball BEGI Lysholm kits. That thing was a basketcase though, and from what I read of them they were notorious for snapping off crank noses because the pulley had to be perched so far out.

[caseyfoster]

Turbo boost all day baby~

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

I'm definitely jealous of all the OBD I cars that can get away with standalones.



Reason number 3,466 why NAs are better then NBs hehehe..... ;)

pop up headlights. my #1 reason why NA's are better :)

[FE3tMX5]

I've run NA stock, NA modified, 1.6 supercharged and now 2.0L turbocharged, and have to agree that big and boost is best. :D

[Jitb]

Anyone removed the AFM? Ive always wanted to try it out..

[simontibbett]

Anyone removed the AFM? Ive always wanted to try it out..


I have, running a Megasquirt PNP, HUGE difference!

[redrumracer]

Anymore reasons....?

.......nope ;)


better head design, 6 speed transmission(stronger), factory turbo ;)

[Matt Cramer]

Anyone removed the AFM? Ive always wanted to try it out..


We found a 5 hp gain on a stock car from removing it.

dyno sheet (http://www.megasquirtpnp.com/images/mm9093/dyno/diy_91/mspnp_mm9093_ms_meet_dyno_r.jpg)

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

Well that's certainly impressive.

[metalman]

and...for about $100-125 per 1 hp you can do it too! :D
No one ever said normally aspirated Miata power was cheap.
I think it would be fun to have an all motor Miata but I dont like the cost ratio.

[Doppelgänger]

Let's see, i prefer the NB because of the styling and the interior... i love the flow of the rear fenders over the wheels, the sleeker headlights of the 01+ (HIDs FTW). Of coarse there is the better subframes/suspension geometry, MBSC, and chassis bracing that went along with the later models. I've had a 96 that was basic bolt-ons for awhile, then supercharged. Next came the s/c'ed 99. Both cars had HDHC bars, KONI shocks w/RB springs and RB sways and torsen 4.10's. Power was ~190-200 on both of those.

Now i have the 02 with a FMII/Hydra and it completely blows my other cars away. Not to mention all the other stuff that makes the car far superior.... Ohlons DFVs, FM clutch/flywheel, Sparco steering wheel (an smaller aftermarket steering wheel on ANY Miata makes it 10x more fun to drive), FM exhaust, FM sways, FM oil filter relocation, FM swaybar endlinks, PWR radiator with 2/3 Cobra fan and lexan shroud, and more stuff im sure im forgetting.

[thx712517]

What kind of job do you have where you can afford all this stuff? It's the question I always want to ask when I see a particularly impressive automobile at a car show.

[Doppelgänger]

What kind of job do you have where you can afford all this stuff? It's the question I always want to ask when I see a particularly impressive automobile at a car show.
I sell Russian mail order brides..... and crack:D

[metalman]

I sell Russian mail order brides


If you were smart you'd just 'rent' the Russian chicks. ;)

[nderwater]

I turned my first Miata (a ratty '94) into a very capable corner carver, only to get tired of driving such an hardcore car 50+ miles a day to work and back. My current Miata was intended to be a fun commuter car, so It's stock other than the turbo system. The turbo Miata is easily the most fun car I've ever been behind the wheel of (911, S2000, Boxster, 350z, etc.) and is both faster and more entertaining to drive than my M3.

[metalman]

The turbo Miata is easily the most fun car I've ever been behind the wheel of (911, S2000, Boxster, 350z, etc.) and is both faster and more entertaining to drive than my M3.


Very nice compliment to the FI Miata and one I dont find surprising.

[JennB]

My car is pretty boring. It's just a black MSM,

I have a FM intake, VTA BOV that scares people who are waiting for buses or walking down the street, FM downpipe that's just chillin in my garage waiting for me to get the initiative to put it on the car, aftermarket boost gauge, FM throttle body inlet pipe dohickey, a nice little Hallman boost controller and wheels. I did have my SSR Comps on the car but one of them decided it didn't want to be a wheel anymore, just a big doorstop so I'm rockin my Rota Subzeros with custom red lip.

No idea what the car is putting down.. too lazy to dyno it. According to FM it should be in 170-190 something range but right at 200 when the exhaust goes on.

I think everything I've done to the car has added something positive to it. The car in stock form really isn't that fast (to me) so it needed a little more pep. FM parts are not cheap, but they do exactly what they are supposed to and I haven't ever had a quality issue with any of them.

[Stealth97]

I know there are a lot of boostheads here, but I've always preferred N/A power. I'd rather do a LSx swap than have a turbo.

I just have a "stock" ;) 1.8 though. I put in some low friction, ceramic muffler bearings and its making somewhere around 130 rwhp.

[JennB]

I like boost. I'm on my third boosted car and I plan on keeping with the trend with my next one.

[nderwater]

I'm a big fan of cubic inches too (they just sound so GOOD!) but engine swaps are an order of magnitude more complicated than a FI install. If they were easy, I'd be totally be driving a V8 powered FD RX-7 right now instead.

[RotorNutFD3S]

Boosted here. With a bunch of supporting modifications. And about to go with a bigger turbo.
I love turbos and boost enough that my last car, an '02 Saturn sedan, was boosted with a GT2560R.

[Stealth97]

Its all good. I can certainly appreciate a turbo car, and the BEGI kits have definitely tempted me a time or two, especially after the ride in Jerry's (from DIY autotune) car.

I had a JRSC for about three years, constantly tweaked it yet still never got the car to run quite right, and kept throwing belts... judging the way it dusted off the local mustangs it had to be making 170-180 rwhp though. It was running 11 psi and a big intercooler.

[Stealth97]

I'm a big fan of cubic inches too (they just sound so GOOD!) but engine swaps are an order of magnitude more complicated than a FI install. If they were easy, I'd be totally be driving a V8 powered FD RX-7 right now instead.


agreed. Ive been quite tempted just to sell my car and get a C5, they are getting really cheap.

[RotorNutFD3S]

I'm a big fan of cubic inches too (they just sound so GOOD!) but engine swaps are an order of magnitude more complicated than a FI install. If they were easy, I'd be totally be driving a V8 powered FD RX-7 right now instead.


agreed. Ive been quite tempted just to sell my car and get a C5, they are getting really cheap.


Agreed to both. Although I really enjoy my low insurance rates because of the Miata, so maybe an LS1 swap in the Miata would be better.

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

I really need to experience a boosted Miata, I've driven a mazdaspeed Miata once and that felt fun as balls. Anyone willing to give me a ride sometime? Especially at an autox :D

[Doppelgänger]

My car is pretty boring. It's just a black MSM,



I think everything I've done to the car has added something positive to it. The car in stock form really isn't that fast (to me) so it needed a little more pep. FM parts are not cheap, but they do exactly what they are supposed to and I haven't ever had a quality issue with any of them.
:violin:



:D jk

I think the car looks like a ninja.. and she's no slouch either. Don't worry, we'll get some springs and the exhaust on soon.

[MeFryRice]

Once I get an NA, I plan to do an F20/22 swap-a-roo! :D I've been doing my research a lot lately and clearly know what I'm getting myself into but in the end, it should be a fun 210-215whp RELIABLE toy!

[Doppelgänger]

I'm kinda lost....

why do a F20 swap when you already have a S2K and for the same amout of ka-ching you can get a decent turbo kit AND other mods (suspension, rollbar, wheels, brakes)? NOT being an ***/nay-sayer/basher, just wanting perspective.

[MeFryRice]

I'm currently selling the S2K to buy an FX to use as a towing toy but yet it's still nice enough to take out on the weekends.

I really like the F-series motors besides the lack of torque (given with most 4-cylinders). The motor is strong and very rev happy. I could always do an LS1 swap but that would just affect the balance of the car too much. With this build, I'm not looking to make the most horsepower. You mentioned going the boosted route but IMO, it's a lot more complex and needy. I plan to track the car and I don't want to have the worry in the back of my mind that something is going to blow, not saying an NA motor can't do it, just not as easily.

My goal with the car is to have balance, a little more kick and most importantly, reliability.

I answered your question so now I have one for you....

You've put a lot of money into your car (boost, Ohlin coilovers, exterior mods, etc) but you run Rota wheels? Are you not afraid of them cracking on you like they are known for? I know you do a lot of drift/track events and it's just shocking, IMO, to see someone run these wheels. Maybe you haven't run into this problem and thats a good thing, I'm just curious.

[Otto]

tow toy? FX?

isnt the max capacity with the v-8 one like 3500lbs? doesnt sound like much, i wouldnt tow much with them, more like drag a light trailer around with some stuff on it

[JennB]

You've put a lot of money into your car (boost, Ohlin coilovers, exterior mods, etc) but you run Rota wheels? Are you not afraid of them cracking on you like they are known for? I know you do a lot of drift/track events and it's just shocking, IMO, to see someone run these wheels. Maybe you haven't run into this problem and thats a good thing, I'm just curious.


We have like 5 or 6 sets of wheels. The most we've ever had was 8 or 9 at once. And no, we've never had a single problem with any of the Rota wheels we've owned. My SSR's, yeah, one of them cracked. Currently and in the past we've had SSR's, Rotas, Racing Harts, Volks, BBS, MB Motoring (great cheap drift wheels) and a few randoms that I can't remember. You do know that the black wheels on his car are not track wheels, right? We have a set in the garage with slicks on them.


Hell, I hit a huge deer a while back when my car had Rota's on it, ran right over the thing and then slammed down so hard I can't believe my car wasn't damaged more and they held up just fine.

[MeFryRice]

You do know that the black wheels on his car are not track wheels, right? We have a set in the garage with slicks on them.

Well then clears things up then. For everyday use, I'm sure they work just fine. :)

[JennB]

We have 6 sets of wheels... I just counted.

And we're both of the mindset to spend a reasonable amount on some things so there is plenty left for others. We would never, ever buy Spotmaxxes or something like that but we like to keep our wheels in the middle of the price spectrum so we can have nice cars with a lot of things done to them and a nice house with a garage to keep it all in. I see these kids on CR with wheels that cost more than their car (that's older than them) and I'm like yeah.... you must still live with your parents. lol

[Doppelgänger]

I'm currently selling the S2K to buy an FX to use as a towing toy but yet it's still nice enough to take out on the weekends.

I really like the F-series motors besides the lack of torque (given with most 4-cylinders). The motor is strong and very rev happy. I could always do an LS1 swap but that would just affect the balance of the car too much. With this build, I'm not looking to make the most horsepower. You mentioned going the boosted route but IMO, it's a lot more complex and needy. I plan to track the car and I don't want to have the worry in the back of my mind that something is going to blow, not saying an NA motor can't do it, just not as easily.

My goal with the car is to have balance, a little more kick and most importantly, reliability.

I answered your question so now I have one for you....

You've put a lot of money into your car (boost, Ohlin coilovers, exterior mods, etc) but you run Rota wheels? Are you not afraid of them cracking on you like they are known for? I know you do a lot of drift/track events and it's just shocking, IMO, to see someone run these wheels. Maybe you haven't run into this problem and thats a good thing, I'm just curious.


Actually i've never had a problem with Rota wheels. My God i'd rather run them then SportMax/XXR which are even far more known to crack. But when it comes down to it, any wheel can eventually give into the stresses of abuse. I have seen many brands of wheel crack from the pressures of Spec-Miata and IT-class racing and not from an impact... Team Dynamics, BBS, Volks, SSR and whatnot. Also, i have never known anyone personally to have a Rota wheels just crack/break for no reason. But until the days comes where something changes my mind or i have the $$$ for the "real" stuff, i'll run them. Not to mention, driving on Atlanta roads, i'd rather bend a $150 wheel and get one within a week then a $500 wheels and wait a month.


Oh, and as for booting a NA vs a swap.. there is a lot of pros and cons. The complexity/dependability of any boost is highly dependant on the person installing it and the person maintaining the car. Out of al lthe boosted Miatas i've had, none of them have been unreliable or troublesome. My 99 had an appitite for belts, but it was because I was making it do things it wasn't meant to do. Soome thing like the MP62 supercharger kits are good for 250rwhp and once you put it on, you simply forget that it's even there... absolutely NO maintainance, no extra wear on the oil, no cool down periods after driving. BP's can take 250-300 rwhp (properly tuned) and never have an issue. Also, IF anything were to happen, a BP long block can be found for $200-500+ (usually no more than $1k for one with under 10k miles). How much does something like a F20/22 go for?

Not trying to tell you what to do by any means, just giving perspective from hands-on experiance.

[Doppelgänger]

tow toy? FX?

isnt the max capacity with the v-8 one like 3500lbs? doesnt sound like much, i wouldnt tow much with them, more like drag a light trailer around with some stuff on it


I don;t imagine a CVT transmission is very good for towing. I certainly wouldn't like it... especally after driving a car with a CVT... it sucked:lol:

[MeFryRice]

tow toy? FX?

isnt the max capacity with the v-8 one like 3500lbs? doesnt sound like much, i wouldnt tow much with them, more like drag a light trailer around with some stuff on it


I have been on the FX forums quite a bit the past couple weeks and there are plenty of members that tow with the FX and have seen no issues. It's not like I'm trying to pull around a yacht.

[MeFryRice]

Actually i've never had a problem with Rota wheels. My God i'd rather run them then SportMax/XXR which are even far more known to crack. But when it comes down to it, any wheel can eventually give into the stresses of abuse. I have seen many brands of wheel crack from the pressures of Spec-Miata and IT-class racing and not from an impact... Team Dynamics, BBS, Volks, SSR and whatnot. Also, i have never known anyone personally to have a Rota wheels just crack/break for no reason. But until the days comes where something changes my mind or i have the $$$ for the "real" stuff, i'll run them. Not to mention, driving on Atlanta roads, i'd rather bend a $150 wheel and get one within a week then a $500 wheels and wait a month.

It's a given that any wheel will eventually crack, just depends on how much stress you put on it. Just some are stronger then others. I bought a set of Fikse FM10's (used from a friend's dad) for one of my previous cars and after looking at the wheels, I noticed 2-3 spokes on 3 wheels were completely crakced through. I called Fikse and they wanted $400 for each center piece. :jawdrop:

I agree with you on the Atlanta roads part, these roads are terrible and honestly, I'd be livid if I were to bend a wheel.

Oh, and as for booting a NA vs a swap.. there is a lot of pros and cons. The complexity/dependability of any boost is highly dependant on the person installing it and the person maintaining the car. Out of al lthe boosted Miatas i've had, none of them have been unreliable or troublesome. My 99 had an appitite for belts, but it was because I was making it do things it wasn't meant to do. Soome thing like the MP62 supercharger kits are good for 250rwhp and once you put it on, you simply forget that it's even there... absolutely NO maintainance, no extra wear on the oil, no cool down periods after driving. BP's can take 250-300 rwhp (properly tuned) and never have an issue. Also, IF anything were to happen, a BP long block can be found for $200-500+ (usually no more than $1k for one with under 10k miles). How much does something like a F20/22 go for?

I've noticed that many people are fans of the FM kits, are they really that great? (quality, fitment, etc).

What made you decide to go turbo over the MP62 then? I will consider the boost route but I'll need some convincing, I just don't want to build another money pit.....

I can get my hands on an F20/22 for ~$3k which IMO, isn't too bad. Due to the cars value decreasing and the younger crowd being able to afford to get their hands on them, more are being wrecked these days so the motors are almost becoming a dime-a-dozen. I plan to do all the work myself, besides the welding of the subframe so cost should be kept to a minimum for the most part.

[Doppelgänger]

I've noticed that many people are fans of the FM kits, are they really that great? (quality, fitment, etc).

What made you decide to go turbo orver the MP62 then?




Yes, the FM stuff is absolutely top notch. Both the FM kit on my car and the FM parts on Jenns car couldn't have better fit and finish. Is the price justifiable? Yes. Remember, for a LONG time Bell Engineering designed and fabicated the FM stuff.. so the BEGI stuff is also great, although i've heard of quite a few fitment issues on some of the newer stuff.

Why no MP62? Well, my car came with the FM kit on it... part of the reason i bought it (that and the fact that the car was sent by its PO to FM to have everything installed and tuned and had the paperwork for it). Now, on my 96 and my 99, my ultimate goal was indeed to have a MP62 kit. I've ridden in a 97 that had ~240rwhp on a 62.... it was fast for sure. Honestly, if you don't think you really ever be seeking higher and higher HP goals, it's the way to go and you'll have a rock solid system. Yeah, some people will argue that you can build a turbo kit for 1/4 the cost of the 62 kit... but it's all about preference. I'd rather spend the money for a proven kit then build something myself.

[MeFryRice]

I don't mind spending the money on quality products as I know it's going to save me money in the long run.

Is there in a tuner in the area reputable enough though? I wouldn't want to take it to Joe Blow down the street....

What made you decide to go with an LE edition instead of starting with an MSM?

I'm not trying to be rude, just want to hear your opinion...

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

Lethal Injection can tune pretty much anything really well. How complex is the harness merge you'll have to do? Or are you going to completely rip out one and replace it with the other? These kind of swaps can add up in price really quickly.

[Doppelgänger]

I don't mind spending the money on quality products as I know it's going to save me money in the long run.

Is there in a tuner in the area reputable enough though? I wouldn't want to take it to Joe Blow down the street....

What made you decide to go with an LE edition instead of starting with an MSM?

I'm not trying to be rude, just want to hear your opinion...


Oh, I don;t mind a good discussion, it sucks that sometimes on some forums people take it as an arguements and go ape**** **coughcoughimportatlantacoughcoughcpugh**

Actually, when i really started following different special editions, i always took a likeing to the Titanium 02 SE because of the color and the interior, the 3.9 rear and the 6 speed. But they were far out of reach for me back then. Then when they released the MSM, i really liked them too, but too expensive when new for me. Unfortunatly the Ti MSM's kinda made the 02SE obscure. But when i came across mine, it was the best of both worlds.. titanium AND turbo. By now i figured out how much leather completely sucks in a convertable and how coo lthe 10AE interior was, so i put together my own blue/black interior. When I was looking at getting another Miata earlier this year, i was looking for a VR MSM though. I know enough about them now to know what needs to be changed to make them better (starting with ripping out the aweful 4.1 rear end and putting in either a 3.9 or 3.63). But in the end, i just happened to find the car i bought for sale by stumbling across it and it was too good to pass up.

As for local tuners, I don't know anyone on the south side of Atlanta specifically, but I had mine tuned by Ed at Balanced Performance. He has probably tuned more Miatas than anyone else around. The guy is very professional and knowledgeable about tuning and tunes many SPEED World turning cars, spec Miatas and anything else under the sun you can think of. But, if you ever happen to go with a MS, then Jerry is THE man to see.

[MeFryRice]

Lethal Injection can tune pretty much anything really well. How complex is the harness merge you'll have to do? Or are you going to completely rip out one and replace it with the other? These kind of swaps can add up in price really quickly.


For the F20/22, I will use the factory Honda harness for simplicity. Like I mentioned earlier, this will be something I do myself in my garage. :)

[MeFryRice]

I don't mind spending the money on quality products as I know it's going to save me money in the long run.

Is there in a tuner in the area reputable enough though? I wouldn't want to take it to Joe Blow down the street....

What made you decide to go with an LE edition instead of starting with an MSM?

I'm not trying to be rude, just want to hear your opinion...


Oh, I don;t mind a good discussion, it sucks that sometimes on some forums people take it as an arguements and go ape**** **coughcoughimportatlantacoughcoughcpugh**

Actually, when i really started following different special editions, i always took a likeing to the Titanium 02 SE because of the color and the interior, the 3.9 rear and the 6 speed. But they were far out of reach for me back then. Then when they released the MSM, i really liked them too, but too expensive when new for me. Unfortunatly the Ti MSM's kinda made the 02SE obscure. But when i came across mine, it was the best of both worlds.. titanium AND turbo. By now i figured out how much leather completely sucks in a convertable and how coo lthe 10AE interior was, so i put together my own blue/black interior. When I was looking at getting another Miata earlier this year, i was looking for a VR MSM though. I know enough about them now to know what needs to be changed to make them better (starting with ripping out the aweful 4.1 rear end and putting in either a 3.9 or 3.63). But in the end, i just happened to find the car i bought for sale by stumbling across it and it was too good to pass up.

As for local tuners, I don't know anyone on the south side of Atlanta specifically, but I had mine tuned by Ed at Balanced Performance. He has probably tuned more Miatas than anyone else around. The guy is very professional and knowledgeable about tuning and tunes many SPEED World turning cars, spec Miatas and anything else under the sun you can think of. But, if you ever happen to go with a MS, then Jerry is THE man to see.



Everyone on IA is an :butt:hat. IA has become nothing but unnecessary drama.

I can tell that you are not a fan of the 4.1 rear end, do you feel it's too short or is it just not as durable? I could see how a 4.1 gear is too short for a boosted car. On the S2K world, most people will jump from the factory 4.10 gear to a 4.56/4.57R (which I previously had) to even a 4.77 but the 4.77 for our cars is way too short IMO.

[JennB]

Ugh, it's so short. I'll get rid of mine one of these days.

[RotorNutFD3S]

Steve, you are more than welcome to come around when I start rebuilding the Miata to see what needs to go into it. I have a binder that is organized into what parts I've required, and how much I estimate they will cost me compared to what I've actually spent and where. Boosted Miatas are no money pit if they are built and taken care of properly.

[metalman]

There is no real 'durability' factor with Miata torsens, regardless of ratio.
It just comes down to personal preference and/or use.

[MeFryRice]

Steve, you are more than welcome to come around when I start rebuilding the Miata to see what needs to go into it. I have a binder that is organized into what parts I've required, and how much I estimate they will cost me compared to what I've actually spent and where. Boosted Miatas are no money pit if they are built and taken care of properly.


Thanks, I might just have to take you up on that! :P

[MeFryRice]

There is no real 'durability' factor with Miata torsens, regardless of ratio.
It just comes down to personal preference and/or use.


The S2K's diffs are built with the Miata equipment and are notorious for blowing. :( It just depends on how hard you drive the car.

[RotorNutFD3S]

The S2K's diffs are built with the Miata equipment and are notorious for blowing. :( It just depends on how hard you drive the car.
I find it quite funny that I read that and texted it to you at the same time that you posted it here. lol

[MeFryRice]

That was weird! haha

[metalman]

The S2K's diffs are built with the Miata equipment and are notorious for blowing. :( It just depends on how hard you drive the car.


In the realm of Miatas blown Torsens are pretty much unheard of.
I am sure there arr a couple somewhere...but in this application its not worth considering.
In Spec racing the torsen is considered to be the buy it once and forget it diff. The housing usually fail (due to off track excusions) before any internal issues arise.
Cant speak as to why the Hondas have issues.

[metalman]

Generally if you see a Miata with a blown torsen its a dumass teenage drifter. ;)
You have to REALLY beat on one to break it in my experience. If youre going to break torsens in a Miata youre going to be needing lots of transmissions...and likely more of those then diffs IMHO.
You can break nearly anything if you ABUSE it. For the normal 250whp turbo Miata with a driver who isnt purely abusive a torsen should be quite sufficient. If youre running some kind of 400hp drag setup you will need the entire drivetrain to be other then oem Miata parts.

However, if its that great of a concern you could use RX7 guts. I have them in my turbo car but would just as soon have a torsen for street use.

[Doppelgänger]

I myself have never killed a Torsen, but i have seen a few dead ones. The BIG killer of torsens is wheel hop. I'd be willing to be that the S2K guys who have killed them have done it from drag racing... and why people drag race a S2K is purely retarded anyway (going to the strip a time or 2 just to get a time is one thing, but im talking about the people that make it a regular habit). Like Kurt said though, gear ratios have nothing to do with strength. The 4.1 is too short for a 6 speed car. You have 3 options on a MSM -

1) swap the 6 spd for a 5 spd, which makes crusing in top gear about equal between the cars.
2) get either a 3.9 from a 99 10AE, 00 SE or 01-04 6spd
3) order a 3.63 r&p from Mazmart and have it installed either by them or a good diff. mechanic

Once you get above the mid-300rwhp level, 5-spd transmissions start to show their weakness. I have yet to hear of a 6spd taking a **** from too much power/tq.... they are very strong. The diff. starts to be a concern and swapping for FC turbo internals is where it's at.... or buy a GURU for like $600 and never worry about rebuilding a diff (RX-7 is clutch and clutch types need to be rebuild to retain proper operation, GURU is basically a overbuilt mechanical/torsen).

[metalman]

I myself have never killed a Torsen,


THAT my friends is a testament to their durability! lol.... :P

Honestly, the reason I said durability is not worth considering is because in the years and thousands of transactions & inquiries I have been involved in for Miata parts I have not had ONE request from a person who blew a torsen diff. Not one.
I know its certainly possible. Anything is possible. I also have noticed that there seem to be certain factors in place when it does happen, those being:

1. Abuse
2. Drag racing (see #1)
3. Drifting (see #1)
4. High HP applications (see #2 & #1)
5. Teenage ricer mentality (see #3 & #1)
8. 7-8k clutch dumps (see #5 & #1)
9. Poor driving skills

Of course there are always exceptions. :)

[Doppelgänger]

Yeah, i had the factory 4.1 torsen in my 96 and did 100k (car had 100k on it already) of drifting and HARD driving. When i bought my 99, i took the torsen from my 96 and put it in and did 75k of drifting,auto-x/mountain driving/street racing/clutch dumps. I managed to kill 2 5spd transmissions... but the diff performed nothing short of perfect... and the fact that it had almsot 300k on it!!! Yes nearly 300,000 miles!!! I NEVER let the diff expierence wheel hop though...if i even felt it slight start of wheel hop i punched that clutch pedal in so fast.

I did kill a power plant frame though :lol:

[MeFryRice]

What ever happen to your '96?? IIRC, was it totalled?

[JennB]

It dead

[ben91]

Well I DO see bad differentials. The most common mode of failure seems to be leaking drain plug causing to loss of oil. I've also seen more than one broken ring and pinion probably due to wheel hop. And we had one come in that was simply set up incorrectly, with no sign of anyone ever being in there after the factory. There are a couple others in the back that have ugly ring and pinions that must have been making noise and were pending catastrophic failure, but had not failed yet.

You can not simply swap a MSM/Non MSM diff back and forth--the MSM uses different axles (bigger splines at the diff, but same at the hubs). If you're going to put in a 3.909 out of an earlier 6 spd car, then be sure to bring axles with it. There are so few axle failures, there's no problem with going to the "smaller" aka "standard" axles.

And for the record, I only read page 8 of this thread, and don't really care if I was on topic or not.

Ben

[Doppelgänger]

Ben, we were specifically talking about Torsens.... we all know that 1.6 diffs will break even at stock power levels :giggle: But how many torsens have you seen really break froms something other than excessive wheel hop or running dry?

[ben91]

I was specifically talking about 1.8 diffs as well. I have now seen a handful of failed Torsens, and can speculate that most were caused by wheel hop and others by running dry. But I've also seen damage that was not likely to be caused by either.

[MeFryRice]

What is usually known to blow? The LSD itself, the housing, etc??

[metalman]

Thats the thing, theyre NOT known to blow in Miatas. Theyre known NOT to....as Doppelganger has proven. :D :D
I have put this question to my spec racing friends. When asked if Miata Torsens fail the overwhelming answer is no.
A couple reported broken housings however from off track excursions.

[MeFryRice]

That's always good to know! :D

[ben91]

Time to get into semantics I suppose. It can be misleading to call the entire torsen equipped differential a torsen, when the torsen is really just a part of it.
The "torsen" unit inside the diff itself rarely (if ever?) fails UNLESS the ring and pinion grenaded and blew shrapnel through it or it was run without oil. I've seen the results of both. Not pretty. I've never seen a failed torsen unit in an otherwise good differential, however again I've seen plenty of bad 7" differentials and some had good torsens in them still. I have seen 7" ring and pinion gears that show significant signs of wear and others that failed.

The aluminum differential housing has an area designed to break in event of an accident, so obviously I've seen that too--but I am not counting that as a failed differential as the aluminum housing is easily replaceable. One time I saw a cracked pinion housing.

Ben

[Doppelgänger]

Oh, i failed to mention that on my diff, i did have the rubber dampener thingy on the front (near where the driveshaft bolts up) went to **** somehow or another. I ground it off and never had a problem. Overall the 1.8 LSDs are VERY strong...def. one of the last things that you'd ever need to modify or worry about.

[ben91]

I have personally seen the front "clover" or "iron cross" separate itself from its rubber base twice. Both cars were autocrossed very hard. The automatic diff does not have that part. Really it's just extra mass added for driveline inertia in manual trans cars. Removing it will take about 2lbs off that spinning mass.

Word of caution: DO NOT remove the pinion nut to pull the clover off. The pinion nut holds preload on the pinion bearing. I will not name names, but someone most of us here know did such a thing last week.

[RotorNutFD3S]

^Oh crap!

[Doppelgänger]

I have personally seen the front "clover" or "iron cross" separate itself from its rubber base twice. Both cars were autocrossed very hard. The automatic diff does not have that part. Really it's just extra mass added for driveline inertia in manual trans cars. Removing it will take about 2lbs off that spinning mass.

Word of caution: DO NOT remove the pinion nut to pull the clover off. The pinion nut holds preload on the pinion bearing. I will not name names, but someone most of us here know did such a thing last week.



Yeah, i cut mine off :)

So taking 2lb of rotating mass of the driveline = any kinda of gain?? hmmmmm

[MeFryRice]

So taking 2lb of rotating mass of the driveline = any kinda of gain?? hmmmmm

less stress too....

[metalman]

While we're on the diff subject whats the consensus for fluid for use in an RX7 clutch type posi? Some say use the friction additives, some say dont. Keep in mind, this would be for normal street cruising.

I hear these diffs will fail if you dont put oil in them. LOL.....

[ben91]

So taking 2lb of rotating mass of the driveline = any kinda of gain?? hmmmmmOf course. It's not dissimilar to lightening the flywheel, and has the same pros and cons. If you don't care about the possibility of a little extra NVH, then go for it.


While we're on the diff subject whats the consensus for fluid for use in an RX7 clutch type posi? Some say use the friction additives, some say dont. Keep in mind, this would be for normal street cruising.

I hear these diffs will fail if you dont put oil in them. LOL.....
Of course you have to use friction modifiers. LOL, who says you should not??

I have the original metal tag on mine that secures between the fill plug and alum housing, and it specifically mentions something along the lines of "LSD equipped, use LSD modifiers" or something. I've been using Royal Purple. It takes about 1.5 bottles to fill a 1.8 pumpkin with RX7 clutch pack. Torsens take 1 full bottle.

[MeFryRice]

I just use M1 gear oil in 75w 90 and haven't had any issues.

[metalman]

Of course you have to use friction modifiers. LOL, who says you should not??

I have the original metal tag on mine that secures between the fill plug and alum housing, and it specifically mentions something along the lines of "LSD equipped, use LSD modifiers" or something. I've been using Royal Purple. It takes about 1.5 bottles to fill a 1.8 pumpkin with RX7 clutch pack. Torsens take 1 full bottle.


No one 'famous' or in particular, just forum chatter I have read about diff oils. If I could find the threads again I'd link them.
I have the same tag on mine.
This could be a matter of semantics too as I thing the tag reads something along the line of 'clutch type diff oil only' or something...and many quality diff oils have the right friction modifiers in them...negating the need to buy 'special' oil for clutch type diffs.
I am guessing here.
I do recall some discussion as to whether any oils made any differnce in performance, clutch lifespan, etc and some said any diff oil would work fine. Its been awhile since I read this so my memory is foggy.

[ben91]

Most anything you purchase off the shelf will already contain the modifiers including the Royal Purple at Pep Boys for $9 or something. M1 Synthetic also includes modifiers, which is what we put in a friend's diff after swapping it in. We carry RedLine at work, which also has modifiers, but we're out right now.

[Doppelgänger]

RedLine FTW.

[MeFryRice]

Redline>RP

[Doppelgänger]

I used to use Rotella oil in my 96 and my 99 and loved it. That's GREAT stuff if you don't want to pay for stuff like RL and RP. I know it eliminated the hydraulic lifter tick on my 96.

[metalman]

I use Rotella 15/40 for engine, works great!

[Doppelgänger]

I think i was using 15/50 on mine (or was it 20/50?) But I use RedLine these days...