big problem 2 sets of wisecos down

[evilmiata]

does anyone know if diy in Suwanee does tuning .after taking my car to a well known tuning shop my cars been melting down pistons left & right .its a 92 but the car shouldnt be trying to recycle itself. im now about to be 0.060 over and its way out of hand . i recently found more than a few settings that would justify a nuclear explosion, but id rather have experts with megasquirt @this point. i ran it for a year no problems. track & street racing no problems. got it what was supposed to be professionally tuned. problem. :facepalm:

[JDM88]

They don't operate as a tuning house per-se but they do occassionally do tuning and maybe if you're in a megasquirted user in a pickle they'll help out. Have you gotten in touch with the shop that's caused the problems?

[evilmiata]

my engine was destroyed by your dyno tune last week, also a previous engine was destroyed after a tune Rob did. The first time i just thought it was an mishap, everything was forged in the engine save for the 7.8:1 pistons . I had been driving the car for months with no problems, i attended a dyno meet one saturday around June a day before Import Showdown @ Silver Dollar raceway.Rob dynoed and it was putting down 276 hp, that was decent for me ,but Rob said he thought the car could benefit from some tuning . I said ok, he said he would be free monday , and the date was set. sunday i drove the car to SIlver dollar, made five passes thought the day. That night i drove the car home . Monday i drove out to Main Stream where Rob made adjustments to the fuel & spark timing tables ...he wasnt to familar with the megasquirt set up so he didnt charge full time because he was learning.There was not increase in horsepower but he said it would be safer to run now, i paid him 140 and went about my way. The next i drive the car it begins misfiring & smoking on decell. I get it to the shop , run a compression test, and it only has 60 psi on #3. pour some oil in the cylinder, the compression comes up....that means its a ring or piston problem .Later in the week i pull it down and sure enough the piston is cracked to hell and back. now this is the first experience im thinking despite the fact i had been driving the car so long , bring it to Mainstream , then it blows a piston the next day, this had to be an unfortunate mishap of having cast pistons. I just went about upgrading several supporting factors including the pistons and said nothing to Mainstream...this is the first time. <a href="http://s165.photobucket.com/albums/u48/exzile9/?action=view&current=P1010365.jpg" target="_blank">

http://www.mx5atlanta.com/forums/%22http://s165.photobucket.com/albums/u48/exzile9/?action=view&current=P1010365.jpg<img src="http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u48/exzile9/P1010365.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u48/exzile9/P1010365.jpg


on the second go round i went back with new everything again. everything checked and balanced @ Will Auto Machine shop. I had Dover re check the head, redo the three-angle valve job, and install 1mm oversized valves. Everything is put together with new gaskets, and torqued 10 foot-pounds ver spec. which none of this really matters to point out fault because no amount of in correct torque or procedure can lead to this conclusion . After the build i went about breaking the motor in for 550 miles before coming to Mainstream Performance. Rob asked me what upgrades had i made, i told him i upgraded to 8.5:1 forged Wiseco pistons, a heatshield gasket from Hondata, 1mm oversized valvles , and polishing of the exhaust ports. Once on the dyno Rob went about adjusting the fuel as he saw needed. when he got to the spark table i asked him does he think i needed a knock box to properly adjust the timing , he said no, as long as i was getting it tuned on the Dyno it would be fine. I took his word because Rob is a nice guy , works at a tuning shop that ive had several friends frequent, and he sounded knowledgeable on the subject of tuning. i couldnt figure out why he kept raising the timing, it was set to decrease 2 degrees per pound of boost, so i asked him how he could tell, he aid by the wavyness of the lines in the dyno -graph. he kept raising the timing with no results and hp , and a a point figured it was as good as it was going to get and it had spme other limiting factor. i paid, we got the car off the dyno and left.


on the second go round i went back with new everything again. everything checked and balanced @ Will Auto Machine shop. I had Dover re check the head, redo the three-angle valve job, and install 1mm oversized valves.http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u48/exzile9/P1010441.jpg
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u48/exzile9/P1010441.jpg
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u48/exzile9/P1010433.jpg

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u48/exzile9/P1010434.jpg (http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u48/exzile9/P1010433.jpghttp://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u48/exzile9/P1010434.jpg)


http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u48/exzile9/P1010435.jpg


http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u48/exzile9/P1010440.jpg
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u48/exzile9/P1010440.jpg

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u48/exzile9/P1010446.jpg

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u48/exzile9/P1010446.jpg


Everything is put together with new gaskets, and torqued 10 foot-pounds over spec. which none of this really matters to point out fault because no amount of in correct torque or procedure can lead to this conclusion . After the build i went about breaking the motor in for 550 miles before coming to Mainstream Performance. Rob asked me what upgrades had i made, i told him i upgraded to 8.5:1 forged Wiseco pistons, a heatshield gasket from Hondata, 1mm oversized valvles , and polishing of the exhaust ports. Once on the dyno Rob went about adjusting the fuel as he saw needed. when he got to the spark table i asked him does he think i needed a knock box to properly adjust the timing , he said no, as long as i was getting it tuned on the Dyno it would be fine. I took his word because Rob is a nice guy , works at a tuning shop that ive had several friends frequent, and he sounded knowledgeable on the subject of tuning. i couldnt figure out why he kept raising the timing, it was set to decrease 2 degrees per pound of boost, so i asked him how he could tell, he aid by the wavyness of the lines in the dyno -graph. he kept raising the timing with no results and hp , and a a point figured it was as good as it was going to get and it had spme other limiting factor. i paid, we got the car off the dyno and left.


The next day driving on 285 i accelerated going around traffic and when i let off the throttle poof! a cloud of white smoke left the tail pipes , knowing this how the other build went south, with the familiar miss and oil coming from the breather because pressure is escaping the rings into the crankcase , i just took it back apart...this is when i realize its not leaning or weak cast pistons that caused this problem, but timing. because you can tell it got hot reaaly quick..fusing parts of the piston to the cylinder wall. the main reason being the top half of my new Sealed Power rod-bearings looking almost worn-out(copper color showing) while the bottom hadnt even worn off the grey break-in finish. call me as soon as possible so we can work through this ordeal

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u48/exzile9/P1010459-1.jpg (http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u48/exzile9/P1010459-1.jpg)

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u48/exzile9/P1010466.jpg (http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u48/exzile9/P1010466.jpg)

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u48/exzile9/P1010468.jpg (http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u48/exzile9/P1010468.jpg)

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u48/exzile9/P1010473.jpg (http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u48/exzile9/P1010473.jpg)

[evilmiata]

they said they were going to re emberse me on the pistons ...bearings ... and gaskets... i havent been able to contact them since...they dont ansewr the phone....if they do the manager isnt there....they were supposed to be talking to wills auto machine shop ...they never have...

[Doppelgänger]

Man, that really sucks. I've never really heard of them doing bad dyno tuning, but that was when the C-man was doing the tuning. I don't know who Rob is, so no comment there. Hope they make things right for you!

[evilmiata]

thanks,...i hope soo tooo! theyre new to megasquirt so... thats the factor..i have friends (with honda's) that go to them religiously no problems....theyve also been featured in several mags... i dont know how much that means but hey.

[ben91]

They continued to advance timing, even though there was no increase in power on the dyno?

Can you post screenshots of your final fuel and spark tables?

[mustangtomiata]

go to the shop and talk with them. They can't ignore your phone call that way.

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

Damn that's terrible. Definitely go in person and figure out what they're going to do.

[darknessprevails]

i would be Incredibly angry.. but you just gotta keep your cool and let them know how it is. If i was them i would take the puney cost of fixing what they broke if they think they did it or not its just the fact You are gonna tell everybody like you just did.

[mustangtomiata]

indeed a sad story, and yes give em hell indescretely, they'll come around.

[MSPi]

First, I would like to say that I am Charles Warren, owner of Main Stream Performance, where Eddie got his car tuned. I am posting on here because I wanted ALL the facts to be told before people make judgement. If anyone knows me they know that I don't mind if someone feels they have a problem with us that they share their experiences with others. I DO HAVE A PROBLEM WHEN THEY DON'T GIVE ALL THE FACTS OR POST LIES ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED. With that said I will give all the facts that I have and have been told over the phone by Eddie which by his account recorded so he can post those if he would like. This will be a rather long post but I would like everyone to completely read through it to get all the facts. Thanks.


im now about to be 0.060 over and its way out of hand . i recently found more than a few settings that would justify a nuclear explosion,

Please explain how you have gone through 2 sets of wisecos and I have only been told and shown one set. Also, you said that the first set was a .020 over and after they "melted down" you rehoned it and put another set of .020 in it. Where is this .060 coming from?

[MSPi]

I had been driving the car for months with no problems, i attended a dyno meet one saturday around June a day before Import Showdown @ Silver Dollar raceway.Rob dynoed and it was putting down 276 hp, that was decent for me ,but Rob said he thought the car could benefit from some tuning .

Ok first, when you came to dyno day the car was not running fine. It would not even make a clean pull on the dyno because of loading up with fuel. Also, I don't know where you get this magic 276 number from as I have every dyno run that I have ever made saved on the computer with dates and times that I can not change. Here are the graphs from dyno day.

This is the first run on dyno day and you can see that it would not even pull all the way to redline due to not running correctly.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg250/mainstreamperf/eddiedynoday1.jpg

This is another run from dyno day where we started the run at a higher rpm so it would not load up so much. Still not the 276hp he claims.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg250/mainstreamperf/eddiedynoday2.jpg

This was a Sat. He then took the car to the drag strip on Sun running the same way and I was also at the drag strip and could hear the car breaking up as it went down the track.

[MSPi]

Monday i drove out to Main Stream where Rob made adjustments to the fuel & spark timing tables ...he wasnt to familar with the megasquirt set up so he didnt charge full time because he was learning.There was not increase in horsepower but he said it would be safer to run now, i paid him 140 and went about my way.

So yes he comes back on Monday and we dyno the car again. Rob made some changes and the car did make more power. Here is the graph AFTER THE TUNE.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg250/mainstreamperf/eddietune1.jpg
There is that 276 we were looking for. Also you can see in the bottom that the a/f ratio was never above 12.0 (the red dotted line is at 12.0).

This is with the cast pistons and I was later told that the piston broke after a 5th gear pull on the interstate racing another car.

[MSPi]

on the second go round i went back with new everything again. everything checked and balanced @ Will Auto Machine shop. I had Dover re check the head, redo the three-angle valve job, and install 1mm oversized valves. Everything is put together with new gaskets, and torqued 10 foot-pounds over spec. which none of this really matters to point out fault because no amount of in correct torque or procedure can lead to this conclusion . After the build i went about breaking the motor in for 550 miles before coming to Mainstream Performance. Rob asked me what upgrades had i made, i told him i upgraded to 8.5:1 forged Wiseco pistons, a heatshield gasket from Hondata, 1mm oversized valvles , and polishing of the exhaust ports. Once on the dyno Rob went about adjusting the fuel as he saw needed. when he got to the spark table i asked him does he think i needed a knock box to properly adjust the timing , he said no, as long as i was getting it tuned on the Dyno it would be fine. I took his word because Rob is a nice guy , works at a tuning shop that ive had several friends frequent, and he sounded knowledgeable on the subject of tuning. i couldnt figure out why he kept raising the timing, it was set to decrease 2 degrees per pound of boost, so i asked him how he could tell, he aid by the wavyness of the lines in the dyno -graph. he kept raising the timing with no results and hp , and a a point figured it was as good as it was going to get and it had spme other limiting factor. i paid, we got the car off the dyno and left.
The next day driving on 285 i accelerated going around traffic and when i let off the throttle poof! a cloud of white smoke left the tail pipes , knowing this how the other build went south, with the familiar miss and oil coming from the breather because pressure is escaping the rings into the crankcase , i just took it back apart...this is when i realize its not leaning or weak cast pistons that caused this problem, but timing. because you can tell it got hot reaaly quick..fusing parts of the piston to the cylinder wall. the main reason being the top half of my new Sealed Power rod-bearings looking almost worn-out(copper color showing) while the bottom hadnt even worn off the grey break-in finish.

Ok, now he brings it back after putting new pistons in it. We tune it again and it makes a little more power. Here is the graph after the SECOND TUNE.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg250/mainstreamperf/eddietune2.jpg

Now I highlighted how you said you were just going through traffic but on the phone you told me that you were again racing someone and it was after another 5th gear pull that this happened. Also, highlighted is where you say that it was not a lean problem but a timing problem. Well show me the detination marks on anything. Also, did you hear detination from timing? You said on the phone and above that everything got hot real fast, that the machine shop said everything got too hot from a lean problem not timing. Which one is it? What was your wideband a/f gauge reading during the 5th gear pull? You didn't look. What was the boost gauge reading during this 5th gear pull? Again you didn't look. My dyno graphs don't show the car going lean, the parts don't show any detination.

I spoke with your machine shop and asked some of the specs on the motor build. All I got was I am not sure I didn't write it down I will have to check and call you back. Three days later I get a message that says "Umm I think it was about .004" piston to wall clearance". I then asked you, the person that assembled the motor, what were the specs and you don't know what they are and you have put the motor together twice now with high dollar parts and don't check clearences.

[ben91]

Hello Charles,

Which dynojet does your shop have?

I obviously wasn't there for any part of the motor build, tuning, or subsequent tare down. But looking at this final dyno chart, I see lean spot of 14:1 a/f centered at 5300rpm and a weird 10.5:1 rich spot centered at 7100 rpm. RPM readings are appx; I wish you had scaled the X axis in RPM instead of MPH.

There's little doubt in my mind that the lean condition at 5300 rpm would easily detonate, audibly and/or inaudibly. Does your tuner use any equipment to listen for knock?

The rich spot at the top is also weird. I wonder if it had a spot it detonated, so the tuner threw more fuel at it.

The piston pictured looks more like it was melted than had detonation damage. I still want to see the final tuned tables for VE and spark.

Eddie, please post screen shots. I'd also not mind seeing the entire .msq that was running the day the engine went.

[MSPi]

That one spot is not as high as 14.1a/f. I will post another graph shortly.

[scareyourpassenger]

Could have fooled me. I have seen some issues tuning on a dyno that isn't load based. Dynapacks are the best dyno to tune with in my opinion.

[Doppelgänger]

O hai Charles *waves*

[evilmiata]

Rob(mainstream) kept wondering what those breaks in the graph were....i will work on posting a srceen shot of the tables....and as a correction !ANYONE WHO WAS AT DYNO DAY SATURDAY BEFORE IMPORT SHOWDOWN@SILVER DOLLAR RACEWAY...(MY FIRST TIME COMING TO MAINSTREAM) KNOWS IT MADE 276HP THAT SATURDAY before MaimStream TOUCHED IT

[evilmiata]

......MR. cHARLES IS trying to pull some smoke & mirrors....because he knows it had bad plugs ...so Rob had to run it at a steady high rpm to clear the cylinders of excess fuel then accelerate to get it to the276 mark that Saturday....the following Monday(the first time the car was tuned) Rob fixed decel which was fouling the plugs out ....thats the only good thing that came from this ordeal....decel? 2500 out the window ?well thanks charles ...thanks Maimstream.....you admitted it, said you were going to pay for it now your denying it ? ok ....

[evilmiata]

no Ben ,they dont use any equiment to listen for knock . they said they can tell by the wavyness of the graph....how wavy does it have to be? ruffles or lays? so high tech . we had this conversation i asked if i need to get a knock box for them to tune it correctly ,,,Rob said " as long as i was bringing it to them to be tuned on the dyno,no".

[ben91]

Post your final dyno tuned .msq. Also post the .msq you were running the day the motor blew, if different.

Email to me if you need to. b b e r u s c h at h o t m a i l dot c o m

[MSPi]

Since we didn't listen for knock on the dyno, please show me any evidence of knock on the piston, head, spark plug, etc.

Also, if you can bring me a graph of 276whp on dyno day, (date will be on paper that I printed and gave to you) then I will give you one of my children.


Look I am not tring to pull smoke and mirrors, I am just wanting to get out all the facts. I just can't see that 100% the tune caused this problem. You can't tell me the piston to wall clearance. Your machine shop said "ummm .004". Wiseco's website says .004" PLUS .001" FOR TURBO. This may mean that IN A FIFTH GEAR pull on the highway that the pistons got a little hotter (happens in long pulls like that), YOU CAN'T TELL ME THE A/F FROM YOUR WIDEBAND OR THE BOOST DURING THIS 5th GEAR PULL, so if the piston got hot and expanded (Wiseco's like to expand more then other brand pistons, you can look that up also, some people even suggest, including me, .006-007" clearance), when they expanded just enough to touch the cylinder walls, within a few seconds the fricton will cause them to get HOT QUICKLY and melt like they did. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE TWO MACHINE SHOPS OF YOURS SAID.

[MSPi]

O and please answer my questions about 2 sets of Wiseco's and the .060" you posted in the original post. Thanks.

[amaff]

http://evilbeetgossip.film.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/chloe_game.jpg

[mustangtomiata]

http://evilbeetgossip.film.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/chloe_game.jpg




i 2nd this motion

[ben91]

O and please answer my questions about 2 sets of Wiseco's and the .060" you posted in the original post. Thanks.
The way I read it, Eddie said he's down 2 sets of pistons, first being GTX 7.8:1 and the second being overbore Wisecos. Now he's putting a 3rd set of pistons in the block which will be .060 over. I don't see where he says he's down 2 sets of Wisecos.

Your explanation of why the engine ate itself is very plausible and is supported by images. .004 is not enough clearance, and the wiseco pistons look melted and not broken or pitted. But I would not expect Eddie to monitor telemetry during a 5th gear pull. It's irresponsible to take your eyes off the road at high speed. If data needs to be captured, then data log.
That aside, since his car was on the dyno the previous day, I can't blame him for trusting his tune and his tuner.

The GTX piston does look like detonation damage and the timeline is suspect.

I still would like to see the .msq.

[evilmiata]

Sorry. ive been away from the computer. he knows Ben. Really its pointless to go round with this maimsteam guy he doesnt want to pay...even though he admitted fault...said he would pay for it, but couldn't pay for it all at once... he said we would have to work out payments( if thats true its probably cases like this thaT got you there) *the cast brand new factory gtx pistons were not Wisecos no clearance issue* Will"s Auto Machine Shop has always done A great job with High output race engines* i ran the motor serveral thousand miles on my street tune@18 psi ...pulled it out to fix a oil leak @ the oil pump, while i was at it i went through everything nothing was damaged but i went back with new rings , bearings, and gaskets . in scientific method this would be the control.* i drove the car for a couple months racing and all, every driving condition you could think of ...(Sat)brought it to maimstream dyno in @276... (Sun) drive several miles to Silver Dollar Speedway do 3 allout passes drive back (Mon) drive to maimstream ( crush some guy s2k in the way) get the car tuned Robs words are " well we didn't make anymore horse power but at least it will be safer to drive" end quote charlie...(Tues) the car blows during a fifth gear pull ....And Ben your exactly right it like your psychic, i was looking at the road. charlie your a boy and your word isnt worth spit ...when i have to send you an email link to a forum where your in the public eye because your dodging calls mine and the machine shop's , after you admitted & reached an agreement. This is how I get you to respond? if you thought it wasnt your fault it would have been said when we talked face to face, on the phone, via email . Now you come here to lie and save face ....you have no face to loose i know thats not what you call that sac you see in the mirror everyday...live with it id Never bother if i wasnt sure ... i fixed it... again ...i didnt need money...its about whats right .

[evilmiata]

and charlie i told you about how the upper half of my new rod bearings where wore to the brass while the bottom halves were still had there new finish ...

[simontibbett]

i 2nd this motion

X3.

[evilmiata]

you also know you owe me a kid right...oh....damn... genetics ...nevermind ...This is the newest build no thanks to maimstream yes 0.060 http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u48/exzile9/P1010510.jpg also added a re route and powder coated the valve cover too...and it was .040 till it blew again http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u48/exzile9/P1010511.jpg

[evilmiata]

i said it right , but if it was a typographical error does thAt mean it wasnt your fault x4?

[evilmiata]

yeah i said it right 0.060 now, but if it was a typographical error does it mean your right ? wow x4

[SPOOLIN]

I've been building 500, 600, 700, and 800+ hp 4 cyl engines for about 5 years now and i have blown up a lot in the past from experimentation. The scarring and issues your block is showing is nothing i have ever seen from a tuning error, its scarred on the PIN SIDES and not even the thrust points(which is the location of 99.9% of all lean fuel melting occurrences). What were the PTW clearances? what was the compression?, what was the compression tests showing on fresh build? I'm interested to know since you had a machine shop "verify" everything. A proper break in for ANY performance engine is strait onto the dyno after 20 minutes of idling and an oil change and strait to WOT tuning. Not 600 miles of god knows what you were doing driving. If i was a performance shop i wouldn't pay you ANYTHING unless i had total control over the engine build and knew that the engine was built absolutely right..it ONLY MAKES TOTAL SENSE.

[MSPi]

First off it's Charles not Charlie boy, we are both adults here. Second, why the personal attacks? I have emailed you explaining why I don't want to talk on the phone and have more "recorded phone calls". I have asked for proof of claims that you make and you have yet to show that proof. For example the dyno day that you still "claim" to make 276 but can't show me the paper that I gave you from that day. I don't care what you say and what your friends say I want to see the paper. Watch this I just made 497whp on my stock civic and I have friends to say so. Do you beleive me or do you want to see a graph and video. He are screen shot from the dyno computer that I cannot change.

Dyno day Sat May 2nd. Notice the times and dates and number of runs. I make one file for dyno days and just put the names in the notes field.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg250/mainstreamperf/untitled.jpg
This is without the notes block so you can see the power with no magic 276.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg250/mainstreamperf/untitled1.jpg

Here is Mon May 4th when you came to get tuned. Notice the new file for you and the two times you came to get tuned.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg250/mainstreamperf/untitled3.jpg

Again prove me wrong.

You say that the car blew up on Tues May 5th but never called me to say this and didn't buy new pistons for the motor until July 7th, 2 monthes later.

When you came back for the retune you said the motor was .020" over but it was actually .040" over. When we spoke on the phone (you have recorded right) you said again it was .020" over and you just bought more .020" over piston to put back in. Now it is .060" over. After all these rebores and rehones can you still not tell me any clearances.

You say the bearings were bad, show me pics or why didn't you bring them with the pistons. What was the bearing clearances when you assembled the motor?

If you have the new motor together and in what tune is it running off of? How much power did it make on the new tune?



I will end with this, Eddie you have made a lot of claims as to what we did wrong with your tune. You claim power numbers without proof. However, you have yet to prove any of it. Your machine shops as well as mine said the pistons got hot FAST. I gave you my explination along with evidence now lets here yours. I want pics, writeups, documents, etc, not just "you tuned it wrong". Explain what happened that causes the pistons to do what they did.

[matredd]

bummer

[FooSchnickens]

http://i334.photobucket.com/albums/m423/arteest90/77337f06-3.gif

[evilmiata]

Paul from Mazmart was there and complimented me on the output on dyno day hes someone i know but not personally...i remembered when i called for a part...everytime i told you .040 but if like i said if i said that by mistake does that disprove anything. you havent shown proof of anything charlie boy...i have the boxes receipts and everything...it doesnt even matter like i said your a liar ...i could care leess what you want others to think or how you doctor files like...i know Rob worked for you...hes more your friend if anything and he knows ...your sorry Charlie ...

[evilmiata]

the smoke & mirrors is you putting emphasis on things that dont matter does it matter what bore sized engine you damaged ..No....standard, 0.04, 0.04, 0.60 the car is back together and it wont be going to maimstream...i have a supra too and have so many friends with civics ill be on a few forums charlie

[Flash13783]

ummm i know a few from mainstream really nice guys, BUT i have spent the last year just saving up to get my motor built and buying the turbo stuff im kinda scared to bring it somewhere a fellow miata has running the same ems i am and his messed up and he's left with pretty much NOTHING. Didn't mainstream tune Calebs car?? MAINSTREAM what do you require from the engine shop to take responsibility if everything is in order motor build wise?? I cant afford for my motor to end up like evil's or im done for lol
(and i know this thread has nothing to do with the niceness of the employees evil did say rob was nice)