full roll cage and an SR20 swap?

[GraffitiPanda]

I spoke with the owner of lethal injection today, great guy i have met him before very knowledgeable and hard working.
(first off don't start dissing them because some of the kids who go there give them a bad rep. they do GREAT WORK for MANY PPL NOT JUST SOME KID WITH A LITTLE CASH)

but we spoke about a full roll cage SCCA competition style 8pt.
and he got me back on my SR20 kick.. i wanted to do it for a while and just read to many horror stories backed me out, but seeing as how confident the team was to do it made me re think it, now its not cheep as with anything car related big or small :P
$2000 for the roll cage (thats budgeting WAY OVER what he expects tho.)
$6000 for a fresh SR20 motor and work included (rough estimate but he said it may be less as well) i high balled the budget myself and he said "yeah 6k is probably more than we'd need, but def. fool proof safe margin!"

so im saving my pennies, im really excited and hoping within the year i can do it. :)

if i can save $10,000 and put aside 2k+ what ever is left over and build from the 2k and don't touch it and make that my "car account" i should be able to keep the car up and make it a 1 of a kind yata.

this comes after the paint and suspension keep in mind.
(ive decided to go pearl white with deeeep red flake) :)

[Greg]

?!
6k for an SR? I can get you one for about $1500. It wouldn't be too hard either, just get someone to fab up some mounts and then swap over the ecu and harness from an S chassis. Get a drive shaft made.... ect. No where near $10k. That price range is more like a 2J.

[metalman]

Its been done, nothing new...as have an S2K motor, Vette motor, Mustang, Rotary...etc etc
I wouldnt do it. Forced induction would be a better and much cheaper option.
If I was to do a swap it would be a V8, but swaps are very expensive to do right.
I have noticed that many lose interest in their car soon after a swap. Making your
Miata a better Miata seems like a better plan to me.

[BFH miata]

a full cage in a street miata would probably be a pain in the *** on a daily basis and probably would eliminate the use of the soft top. Probably not safe for your head either.

[jesseealexander]

a full cage in a street miata would probably be a pain in the *** on a daily basis and probably would eliminate the use of the soft top. Probably not safe for your head either.


:wtf: huh?

i think an sr20 would be mega gay and goes against all my ideals of motor swaps, in which manufacturer shouldnt change (with some exceptions). lol. but thats just me.

the cage would be badass though as long as you dont do nascar bars.

[wildfire0310]

there are kits out there now for Sr swaps in miata. If you are really thinking about look into the kit as that will save you mega $$$

I would rather do something different like oh a 4g63/4 swap, but I am bias on badass that motor is

[GraffitiPanda]

well keep in mind this is tuned and gurenteed. If it breaks they fix it. As for the cage... Comfort isn't a huge deal. Safty is way more important and the hard and soft top will work.[/align]

[Otto]

a full cage in a street miata would probably be a pain in the *** on a daily basis and probably would eliminate the use of the soft top. Probably not safe for your head either.


:wtf: huh?


cages are meant to be used when a driver has a full set of safety gear on his body(like a helmet) and the other safety stuff like a proper seat and belting. so getting in a street wreck and smacking your head against a roll bar even with good padding without a helmet isnt nice

[GraffitiPanda]

it won't be my daily at this point so.. Stop refrencing it as a street car...

[BFH miata]

it won't be my daily at this point so.. Stop refrencing it as a street car...


if you are driving it on the road without a helmet, it is a street car. If it is going to be a track only beast, then go for the roll cage.

[GraffitiPanda]

a v8 has weight issues and ur looking to have to beef up everything! I'd rather keep it Jdm and stick with the sr20 i'm going to be putting a lot more than just this full harnesses full safty beef up before anything. I'd rather be fast and safe then fast and dead...

[jesseealexander]

a full cage in a street miata would probably be a pain in the *** on a daily basis and probably would eliminate the use of the soft top. Probably not safe for your head either.


:wtf: huh?


cages are meant to be used when a driver has a full set of safety gear on his body(like a helmet) and the other safety stuff like a proper seat and belting. so getting in a street wreck and smacking your head against a roll bar even with good padding without a helmet isnt nice


if the car is put together right, you shouldnt have issues hitting your head on the cage. either way id rather smack my head on a bar than have it smeared off onto the pavement anyday.

[GraffitiPanda]

thank you!

[Roadster]

I can't really see the point in going to all that trouble and spending all that money to swap in something that's only marginally better. F20 or F22? Sure, that'd be worth it, but not an SR. Eliminating the PPF, one of the things that makes the Miata such a great driver, would be another concern. Unless there's a way to adapt a Miata transmission to an Essartwinny, or adapt the PPF to a 240 transmission? I don't see the point unless you're swapping in a V8. I'm all for cross-pollination swaps, but only when there's a real gain to be had. Boost the fark out of a 1.8. My $0.02.

[GraffitiPanda]

yeah. but keep in mind the sr20 was MADE FOR BOOST the miata ISNT now reliability isn't an issue when it comes down to a boosted mx-5 vs SR but the whole power gain the reliability the torque and room for more is awesome!

this is still up in the air but the cage is a for sure. (bumped heads or not) ill just dress like the stig everywhere i go :)

[GraffitiPanda]

because this... http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd50/Censport/vlcsnap-536005.png
is just an intemidating thing to be behind you at a stop light :) :cool:

[Flash13783]

I like the roll cage idea i never really thought about hitting your head on the bar, but it seems like if you flipped you have a better chance of living with i full one than the behind the seats one.

As for the sr20 my buddy put two in his 240 and has had nothing but problems the car runs good for a month and then is parked for one. PlUS his car isn't that fast an integra gsr is still right next to him.
just my two cents :)

[deerock]

screw custom made cage...just get this 880 for the thickest tubing. and your whole project will be done sooner than ever!

http://www.bethania-garage.com/cages.htm

[RotorNutFD3S]

First and foremost, you never stated that it wouldn't be a street car anymore when this "build" takes place, so don't jump down someone's throat for trying to help you out and point out a problem with your idea. Then you contradicted yourself and said:

because this... (Image of Stig) is just an intemidating thing to be behind you at a stop light :) :cool:


Sure sounds like it will still be a street car still.

Therefore, the people that are telling you that a full cage is not safe for a street car are correct. It makes no difference whatsoever how the car is put together or how the cage is put together. In the event of a rollover, the cage is not going to help anymore than a normal rollbar unless you're in a 5- or 6-point harness and are wearing a helmet, those frontward running bars are more than likely going to bash up your head, especially if you are doing something that flips a Miata! That's pretty hard to do. That's why anyone in the business of making cages for a Miata will say "Track Use". There is plenty of proof that the Hard Dog, Boss Frog, etc. bars work just great. Hell, ask Doppleganger, he flipped his NA multiple times and the rollbar saved his life.

Secondly, your statement saying that Miata engines are not built for boost made me laugh my *** off. Seriously man, do you have no idea of the origins of the B6 engine? They appeared in the 323GTX and were factory boosted and easily capable of supporting 15psi.
SR20s are nothing but reliability problems. Besides what Roadster stated about loosing the frame support that it's good to have. Spend some time reading some of their forums and then make your decision.

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

Also, I'm fairly sure you can get some american muscle that weigh as much as the Miata motor. The sr20 isn't all that, rare, maybe so. But I'm like Jesse, I hate seeing other manufacturer engines in different cars, it just feels wrong.

And the blokes from Lethal Injection are fantastic, really good guys. Did he play you his dnb music?

[Roadster]

^ Pretty true about the above. An all aluminum LS series smallblock weighs only a little bit more than a B6 or a BP with all accessories. Run the LS without power steering or AC and bam, weight penalty regained.

Put some lower compression pistons in the B6 and boost it. Screwing with a superbly designed drivetrain would be counterproductive.

Unless you want something that stands out rather than performs well and consistently, which is a fair enough goal itself. :)

[GraffitiPanda]

wow it's crazy how upset some of you are... Take a joke... And btw flash were they used and done in someone garage or new and done by a well known tuner shop corectly the 1st time?

[Doppelgänger]

SR are made for boost and BP isn't ? The BP/B6 is built (designwise) rather similar to an SR. Hell, i'll soon be shooting for 320-350RWHP on my stock block and it should be able to handle it without sweat. Not to mention the plethora of other details, like the transmising mounting, proper speed-o and fuel gauges. What are your HP goals anyway?

[GraffitiPanda]

First and foremost, you never stated that it wouldn't be a street car anymore when this "build" takes place, so don't jump down someone's throat for trying to help you out and point out a problem with your idea. Then you contradicted yourself and said:

because this... (Image of Stig) is just an intemidating thing to be behind you at a stop light :) :cool:


Sure sounds like it will still be a street car still.

Therefore, the people that are telling you that a full cage is not safe for a street car are correct. It makes no difference whatsoever how the car is put together or how the cage is put together. In the event of a rollover, the cage is not going to help anymore than a normal rollbar unless you're in a 5- or 6-point harness and are wearing a helmet, those frontward running bars are more than likely going to bash up your head, especially if you are doing something that flips a Miata! That's pretty hard to do. That's why anyone in the business of making cages for a Miata will say "Track Use". There is plenty of proof that the Hard Dog, Boss Frog, etc. bars work just great. Hell, ask Doppleganger, he flipped his NA multiple times and the rollbar saved his life.

Secondly, your statement saying that Miata engines are not built for boost made me laugh my *** off. Seriously man, do you have no idea of the origins of the B6 engine? They appeared in the 323GTX and were factory boosted and easily capable of supporting 15psi.
SR20s are nothing but reliability problems. Besides what Roadster stated about loosing the frame support that it's good to have. Spend some time reading some of their forums and then make your decision.


wow way to be a dick.... im aware of the bar that saved mikes life.
well thats cool every one has there own opinion... just in this it seems like everyone is being so *****y about the thought of putting something thats not a muscle motor or a miata motor in which i find funny youd rather drop a HEVY *** american engine throw off the power to weight ratio and have a squirly miata then see someone do an sr20 correctly and achieve the swap the rite way and as for safty it will have all harnesses, seats, etc. etc. etc.! if i do decide to do it... id love fore someone to come up and say (oh thats been done your gay... to bad your not creative should have JUST LEFT IT STOCK AND BOOST IT its smarter because its less work and stuff) god forbid I put time and effort into my car... and just to piss some of ya off... ill drive it daily and ill brag about the knots on my head because... hey NO ONE HERE HAS ANY OF THIS... OR HAS DONE IT BEFORE.... those who matter have been spoken to, the rest of ya are just copying each others opinions, so you can have fun all having the same ideas... if it wasnt for people like me the Shelby may not have ever existed... and you guys wouldn't have a reason to say "its not a just the O.G. barbie car it can adapt a v8 with ease"... think about that...

[GraffitiPanda]

SR are made for boost and BP isn't ? The BP/B6 is built (designwise) rather similar to an SR. Hell, i'll soon be shooting for 320-350RWHP on my stock block and it should be able to handle it without sweat. Not to mention the plethora of other details, like the transmising mounting, proper speed-o and fuel gauges. What are your HP goals anyway?

250 whp on stock tuned setup.

[Doppelgänger]

Well if you really really really want to be truely different and do something that no one has done... why not get a BEAMS 3SG-E (210 n/a HP) or a 3SGTE (well over 250hp) from a Euro/Japanese Altezza?

With a goal like that, there is no advantage to go through all the trouble of swapping a SR. I don't really get the point of swapping out for any other 4 cylinder into a Miata.... rotary and V8 is fine.... a lexus/toyota 4L V8 and twin rear-mount turbos is even better...and hasn't been done in the states.

Or another swap i've always thought would be cool (and fast) is a VQ35 from a Nissan 350Z/G35...or even a old VG30ET turbo V6 from a 87-89 300ZX.

Like I said, im not opposed to swaps, but do it with something that makes sense. Otherwise, spend $3k on a turbo kit for the B6, make 300rwhp and put the other few thousand into suspension/cosmetics/wheels. It seems the reason some people are getting heated is the fact there is simply no solid reason that a SR would be worth the time/effort because it doesn't physically offer any thing the B6/BP doesn't..... except the coolness of the swap to you factor....and if that's what matters, then no ones comments will stop you and they will most likely shut up after it's in and everything is running fine. But I do think that others are trying to keep you from getting into something you'll dislike and get stuck spending too much money on down the road.....but need to use more tactful words.

As for the roll cage, unless you are building it with specifically racing in a class, you'd be better off with a standard rollbar. Having a full cage sounds cool at first, but it gets old...fast. If you're looking for the extra chassis ridgidity, get the Hard Dog bar of your choice and get the bolt-in door bars to go along with it and a FM butterfly brace. It really is rather unsafe and unnecessary to have a full cage in a car that will be driven without the rest of the needed safety equipment. Not trying to jump on the "hate Nick bandwagon or anything, But Nick, I speak from experience and just want to pass on the knowledge of what i've learned (sometimes the hard and expensive way) and what I know.... and maybe give you other ideas to try :)

[MeFryRice]

^^ The 3S-GTE motor is out of the SW20 (90-97 MR2 Turbo). :)

[ben91]

a lexus/toyota 4L V8 and twin rear-mount turbos is even better...and hasn't been done in the states.actually... it has :lol:

[RotorNutFD3S]

You ask for a forum's thoughts on your idea, get pissed that barely anyone thinks that it's a good idea, and I'm the dick? That's actually pretty funny.
No one is being *****y about swapping another motor in, on the contrary, most are trying to advise against the pain that SRs are, because they probably have experience with the motor.
Oh, and and the SR swap HAS already been done, just like rotaries, F20/F22s, hell, I've even seen a twin turbo 300ZX motor stuffed in the Miata engine bay. There is even a whole thread breaking down a boosted SR20 powered Miata on mt.net.
It's really funny because no one is trying to keep you from putting time and effort into your car, just warning against the pains and money spent you will have to endure to do it, if you're up for the job, then go for it!
People like you, no Shelby? Wow, that's a pretty bold claim. What amazing breakthrough have you brought to the automotive world? What amazing design? If you were really bringing something to the table, you wouldn't be paying to have the work done, you'd be good enough to do it yourself.
Take the sand out and stop acting oppressed.

[Doppelgänger]

a lexus/toyota 4L V8 and twin rear-mount turbos is even better...and hasn't been done in the states.actually... it has :lol:
Who in the states has done the toyota twinturbo? I've seen the one over in Europe.. but in everything i've looked for.. nothing in the US.

Steve, IIRC the mounts on the MR2 3S and the Altezza 3S are different.

[Sawyer]

those who matter have been spoken to


From interior thread:

so.... imma put my hater blockers on now...:cool: and the people whos opinions matter have been spoken to. :clap:

You keep saying this. If you don't care about what any of us have to say, then why post?

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

Let's not turn this into fisticuffs. Everyone please keep this on topic about the swap etc. We all know how well arguing on the internet works.

[Sawyer]

I'm not trying to start anything.. Was just curious.

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

Yeah I know, but things can evolve from innocent words. There's enough tension going on here already, so please people, keep it chilled, on topic and constructive. Thanks :cool:

[ben91]

Who in the states has done the toyota twinturbo? I've seen the one over in Europe.. but in everything i've looked for.. nothing in the US.
It's in Kalifornia--Lexus V8 + rear mounted turbo

[ben91]

if it wasnt for people like me the Shelby may not have ever existed...
People like you? Who are you and what did you do?

Signed,
A guy with a 300hp stock 1.6, but realizes that his own accomplishements pale in comparison to many, many others'

[simontibbett]

Holy $$$$$$$$$

What would you even race it in????

[Greg]

ok, this is my honest opinion about the subject (no matter who asks, its the same).
Say it costs you $6000 to swap in the SR and get it running correctly. You'll achieve 210whp. Then take into consideration your car with that same $6000 put into it. Roughly $3k to achieve 300-350whp. Then $3k more for suspension if you want to go all out.
With the $6k in your car as is, you'll achieve a very nice power plant and suspension, whereas with the SR, you'll be 100-150whp down from the first option, and on stock suspension...
Just my $0.02

[Roadster]

I'll be the dick to point out that Shelby only did exactly what some of us are suggesting...which is drop a **** ton of displacement into something that weighs nothing. :P

It seems like more people have put stupendous effort into creating "unique" Miatas than most any other car out there. If the sole intent is just to do something that hasn't been seen before, swapping a straight 8 out of a 1920s Duesenberg would probably be original. The shifter would end up being behind the driver but so what. :D It seems like most everything else under the sun has been tried already. It'd be kind of cool to see a flathead Ford in a Miata...or a B23FT Volvo turbo four, they're pretty indestructible(stock forged pistons/crank). But a lot of people out there wouldn't know the difference between an SR20 and a B6/BP if the hood is lifted.

I really think the most unique and functional swap would be a V6 of some kind. I had started into swapping a Ford 3.8 into a parts car that I had at one time. It fit fantastically well, the oil pan and filter adapter fell on each side of the crossmember like they were made for it. The T5 tranny fit right into the tunnel with a little hammering. The only tricky fabrication that would have been needed was headers. I ended up nixing the whole thing because nobody makes a carburetor manifold for the 3.8 and that's what I wanted to do with it.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b304/NismoSER/P1090126-2.jpg

Nobody in here is being contrary just for the sake of it, Nic, it's a discussion board. My only point is, if you want something that turns heads, something unique in the engine bay, the SR20 is just too similar to the stock engine to do the trick. I'll quit taxing your hater blockers now. :)

[GraffitiPanda]

ok, this is my honest opinion about the subject (no matter who asks, its the same).
Say it costs you $6000 to swap in the SR and get it running correctly. You'll achieve 210whp. Then take into consideration your car with that same $6000 put into it. Roughly $3k to achieve 300-350whp. Then $3k more for suspension if you want to go all out.
With the $6k in your car as is, you'll achieve a very nice power plant and suspension, whereas with the SR, you'll be 100-150whp down from the first option, and on stock suspension...
Just my $0.02


very well put man! very... after today im weighing my options and im gearn back to no swap just cage.

[GraffitiPanda]

if it wasnt for people like me the Shelby may not have ever existed...
People like you? Who are you and what did you do?

Signed,
A guy with a 300hp stock 1.6, but realizes that his own accomplishements pale in comparison to many, many others'


opened my eyes... sorry i pissed so many ppl off.! really...

[metalman]

Here's the bottom line from a few people that have been around Miatas for a while...

SR20 swap = not unique, that **** has been done.
I agree with Roadster, if you want to be unique do something never done
before...get a Dussey 12 banger or a Jag motor or something.....and then
get 3 more jobs. :lol:

SR20 swap from Lethal Injection = mega-expensive,
more power and better reliability could be had for less $$

Miata motors love forced induction, and are built for it.
SR20 swapped Miata would not be good for racing anything other then
the retard types at the sonic meet who do burnouts with their pickups :lol:
There is no road racing class for that kind of build...you'd be better off to
build a Spec or ITA Miata etc OR if you want to drift an SR20 you'd be farther ahead to
switch to a 240. Its a better platform for drifting anyway.

Your HP goals are easily reached with the 1.6 engine

And my own opinion...Nissan 4 banger motors are ghey...when not installed in a Nissan.
You want to do an SR20 swap?? Do it in a Datsun Fairlady. Now this is a cool swap!!....
AND...one that makes sense.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&viewitem=&item=260292355738

In a Miata its just meehhhh...booorrrring.
I am not totally against mixed make swaps, but this particular swap makes no sense.
Sticking a V8 or similar has an appeal of its own. If youre ever at a meet with a well
done V8 swapped Miata be prepared for the crowd to ditch you in favor of that car.
They do draw an admiring crowd. Shelby didnt swap one brand 4 banger for another...
he injected a Miata sized car with a 289v8...then a 427! Thats the Shelby concept.

The SR20 Miata swap is really geared to SR20 fanbois. Seriously. It really doesnt improve your car, on the contrary. And...Your HP goals are easily reached with the 1.6 engine you already have....and theyre obtainable with $$$ left for many other things. :)

[metalman]

If I do a swap, this will be it.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXmu_obZPcA

Love that sound. Beats ANY four banger PERIOD. :D

[Doppelgänger]

Here is the Lexus V8 twin turbo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gncfIvMRdSs


And if that didn't help... how about a twin turbo Lexus V8 in a Ultima GTR going 0-219 MPH in 19 seconds...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3y7qbSCB44

[jesseealexander]

nik, do the cage. idk how in the world anybody can say its LESS safe. if you get racing seats and everything like youre saying, you wont have any noggin-clearance issues and as long as theres no nascar door bars it wont even really bother you much getting in and out.

but sr20 FTL. the money~hp ratio is WAYY worse than a boosted 1.8/1.6 and you lose the PPF setup, which is a great design.

do what you want, because in the end its your car. but thats just my 2 cents. :)

[FE3tMX5]

While nobody here agrees with you, I'd say it's your car and if you've got a passion for doing it, then do it. After all that's what this car thing is all about. You can run track events and providing the car meets safety requirements there are catch-all classes with both the scca and nasa for you to run in. Though odds are you'll be running by yourself OR with something that will absolutely squash you... like a retired Grand Am Cup vette, or porsche... m3. You'd really need to aim for more power to compete in a class that allows things like engine swaps.

[simontibbett]

The cage is not dangerous on the street unless you have seats high enough to hit your head, plane and simple. I ran my ITC Civic as my DD for a year, and couldn't hit my head if I tried. I am about to have a full cage in my Miata and will DD it as well.

As for the SR, I personally just hate the SR20. It's a boring engine. It can make some nice numbers, but it's played out. It's like saying i'm putting a B16 in my Civic....nobody cares. I mean look the SR is in fact so played out people don't like them in any car lol. But it IS YOUR car, do it, be different, if you want it, do it, screw other peoples opinions you wont be happy. :)

BUT if you do plan on running a SCCA or NASA event like racing, check the rule book, a regular 6 point cage legal for IT might not be legal for what class you would run in. A SP class the cage rules follow GT/Prod cage rules.

[amaff]

The cage is not dangerous on the street unless you have seats high enough to hit your head, plane and simple. I ran my ITC Civic as my DD for a year, and couldn't hit my head if I tried. I am about to have a full cage in my Miata and will DD it as well


The problem occurs when you actually have an accident. Studies show that the human neck body stretches more than a couple inches. So, while under normal circumstances you are fine, if you hit something hard enough, chances are you'll contact the cage as well (depending on how / where you're hit)

[simontibbett]

^Well high density padding ftw lol.

[amaff]

^Well high density padding ftw lol.


yeah... high density padding is designed to work in conjunction with a helmet. AFAIK, in GA it's illegal to wear a helmet driving a car on the street. While it may feel safer, you may feel different after your first blunt head trauma injury. You couldn't pay me enough to daily drive a fully caged car on the street w/o a helmet.

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

lol I bet you could be paid enough to do it :lol:

[RotorNutFD3S]

I wouldn't drive a caged car on the street either. I could only imagine hitting my head in an accident. I've accidentally hit my head on my roll bar a couple of times after I first got it and that was enough to teach me to be damn careful about it. lol

[amaff]

lol I bet you could be paid enough to do it :lol:


Well... let's say everyone has a price :whistle:

[simontibbett]

I'm free :)

[jesseealexander]

im with simon. with a racing seat and harnesses, your head will be safe.

[GraffitiPanda]

Cool ...well close this crap... Btw... It's not illegal to drive with a helmet on...

[FE3tMX5]

I drove a caged car on the street - a 91 showroom stock miata with an aluminum race seat, mounted as close the floor as possible while still allowing me to see over dash/hood. The only way my head could hit any part of the cage is if it was detached from my body.

[simontibbett]

Yeah you really can make it safe, especially if it's a custom made cage.

[Doppelgänger]

It's not illegal to drive with a helmet on...



You get the best looks from other people on the street when you do though!!! Ask me how I know..... on multiple occasions.....

[simontibbett]

Last I heard it's illegal

[Doppelgänger]

your face is illegal


















































































































:lol:

[bikerj11]

lol..oh man...

hate me but if i had the money i would want the F20 swap


:whistle:

[RotorNutFD3S]

A boosted F20/22 swap would be even more fun.

[bikerj11]

yes indeedd but its alll $$$$$$$$$$$$$


witch i dont have at the moment!..lool

oh sorry aboiut the tires..it was just a allloonnng drive



A boosted F20/22 swap would be even more fun.

[metalman]

4 cyl to 4 cyl swaps on Miatas are expensive and boring.
The reason being is that the Miata motor is a good one to work with
to begin with...and highly reliable.

Now, if you took an MG or Triumph or some cool looking little
British car...that has a piece of **** motor and electrics...and swapped
that for a Mazda/Honda/Nissan etc 4 banger that swap would make sense.

[RotorNutFD3S]

Don't hate Kurt. :lol:
There's no doubt that the Miata engine is great, I defend them greatly, but I don't think that another reliable 4-cyl. engine swap is a bad thing, especially considering the S2K engine is more fun than a Miata engine if you're staying N/A. I considered a swap when my motor died simply because it would have cost about the same amount of money to do with the people at Honda I know.

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

Drop a ej257 in there. Boxer rumble baby!

[FE3tMX5]

4 cyl to 4 cyl swaps on Miatas are expensive and boring.

I think that depends are where you're going with the swap and what you chose.

Rather than building a B to make over 300whp/ftlbs and last, I chose a stock Mazda engine that would do the same. Swap was just under $1500. That included the price of the engine, b2000 bellhousing, flywheel and having the two manifolds welded together.

Boring? Well, I don't think it's boring at 300whp and nearly that much torque, but I'll admit that there's more there, and yes, it can be more exciting. :D I'm working on it.

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

Do you have a My Journal thread feet?

[RotorNutFD3S]

I'd still like to see your car sometime with the FE and all. Was interested in that swap as well when the rod bent, but didn't feel like having the car down for even longer so that I could do it.

What the heck is a My Journal thread feet?

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

feet = his name

my journal = forum

thread = thread

:whistle:

[FE3tMX5]

no... just a bunch of photobucket images and whatever I documented on mt.net. And wouldn't feet = f337? ;)

FE3 is what is stamped in the cylinder head of Mazda's (and Kia's) FE-dohc. Therefore many refer to the entire engine as an FE3.

Eric I was at the Caffeine and Octane earlier this month, but I never hooked up with you and Ben... you actually left an mx5atl card on my car.

[metalman]

4 cyl to 4 cyl swaps on Miatas are expensive and boring.

I think that depends are where you're going with the swap and what you chose.


Boring? Well, I don't think it's boring at 300whp


Whatever floats your boat man...but many get the same results with a Miata engine. :) I give you points for staying brand loyal.
Your $1500 price is a credit to your patience/skillz at scrounging...and/or to how much of a cheap bastard you are. :lol: Those costs, or anything remotely close it them, wouldnt be possible to the OP...and furthermore are NOT typical. Most swaps are VERY costly.

I have compiled all the required parts for a cool retro styled turbo car for under $2500...TOTAL, including the car...and including some rather expensive items..so I well understand the scrounge/cheap bastard factor. :) Its takes TONS of time, effort, and patience to do a cheap bastard build. Thats why very few people ever do one.

I still say that swapping 4 bangers for 4 bangers in a MIATA is for most a waste of time and $$, and I stand by that.

[metalman]

Don't hate Kurt. :lol:
....the S2K engine is more fun than a Miata engine if you're staying N/A.


:lol: Well I would do that swap before a gayass driftomatic Nissan SR20 thats for sure. :lol:

In your case such a move would be somewhat different...as your engine was toast....and you have access to parts/knowlege for the particular swap.

Swaps arent really practical...if they were I'd swap an old german made Capri V6 into something....just cause I like that motor. :)
Last time I checked Nic wasnt a rich guy...nor was he in your position or Robs.
Swapping an SR20 gains nothing for him...really. BUT, costs him a boatload of cash better spent elsewhere.

...plus its boring. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

no... just a bunch of photobucket images and whatever I documented on mt.net. And wouldn't feet = f337? ;)

FE3 is what is stamped in the cylinder head of Mazda's (and Kia's) FE-dohc. Therefore many refer to the entire engine as an FE3.

Eric I was at the Caffeine and Octane earlier this month, but I never hooked up with you and Ben... you actually left an mx5atl card on my car.


Well that explains the name then! :lol:

[FE3tMX5]

...but many get the same results with a Miata engine. :)
For the price. And that price is either the cost of building an engine with the stronger parts, or short life span. I'd venture to say that any stock B engine at 280ftlbs of torque is not going to last long. Period.

Sans boost? I'd still swap. I'd be running a 99+ longblock with ~10.5:1 compression, some cams and an aftermarket emu.

My point with FE swap is you get a significant increase in strength without the significant cost of a built B engine. And it all bolts in. The only mandatory welding is the oil pan.

I won't argue for the SR20 on function merit. Too much work and cost vs. the benefit. They're stronger than a B, but still need building for reliable hp not too far beyond the B output.

Here's one of the reasons I was OK with a swap vs. a B build up (with boost in mind). F rod on the left, stock B rod on the right. And I got a spare set of stock Mazda F rods for ~$25.
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t86/m2cupcar/current%20FEmx5t/fronts_600.jpg

[metalman]

I won't argue for the SR20 on function merit. Too much work and cost vs. the benefit. They're stronger than a B, but still need building for reliable hp not too far beyond the B output.


Good. :clap: Because youre right....there is no benefit from it....unless you are only looking to get 240 fanboi's to masturbate on your car....and consider that a 'benefit'. :lol:

You live in your own house...you have a nice DD and own your biz. Your Miata is not your only car but a toy. You can afford to play with it in any way you wish...it can sit for month/years while you use your contacts & experience from racing etc to scrounge, fab, and tinker. There is nothing wrong with that....especially if your happy.

I am able to acquire parts for free...as 'leftovers', and use my talents as a scrounge to barter for others....which is what I do anyway.

None of these factors really apply to Nic....yet....at least that I am aware of. And therein lies the heart of the matter. ;)
I would not advise anyone in his position to do a motor swap. Its just not practical. Their efforts would be MUCH better spent elsewhere.




...and besides, sr20s are boring. :lol:

[Sawyer]

...and besides, sr20s are boring. :lol:


:jawdrop: Really? I had no idea...

[FE3tMX5]

I thought I read somewhere in here that his parents were going to pay for it. ;) You'd do the same for your kid wouldn't you? It sounds like it. :D

If I had the dough, I'd be riding the LS bandwagon. They're just making it way too easy now. And I've been over to Mazmart and looked at all those LS powered FCs... :jawdrop:

[metalman]

I thought I read somewhere in here that his parents were going to pay for it. ;) You'd do the same for your kid wouldn't you? It sounds like it. :D

If I had the dough, I'd be riding the LS bandwagon. They're just making it way too easy now. And I've been over to Mazmart and looked at all those LS powered FCs... :jawdrop:


I dont like FCs. I like the LS powered FDs. But, the car itself is too expensive for my budget. If I do a an LS swap it will be into a Miata...and that likelyhood is slim to none at this point. :lol:

My son is driving a $500 Miata...supplied by yours truly. And right now he's lucky to be driving that! ;)

[Sawyer]

Your son needs to come to some meets then!

[metalman]

Your son needs to come to some meets then!


He's been to Gwinnett meet a few times.

[RotorNutFD3S]

Eric I was at the Caffeine and Octane earlier this month, but I never hooked up with you and Ben... you actually left an mx5atl card on my car.


Haha! That shows you how much I've seen your car. I didn't even recognize it. I just carded it and moved on. :lol:

[simontibbett]

You all are talking GIRLY I-4's in here, call AER tell them you need this:

http://www.kruse-schiller-motorsport.com/images/mazda-engine_200x227.jpg

2.0 liter, same as a SR right?

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

Seeing that engine is like when I first started watching porn, I wasn't quite sure what was going on... but I knew I liked it.

[MeFryRice]

Me likey, any specs on the motor??

[Doppelgänger]

It seems we have forgotten probably the best 4-cyl swap for a Miata. I've see na MX-5 or two for sale with the engine already swapped too :(

Cosworth 2.0L from the Sierra. Jack, you should be familiar with that motor :) Bet you never thought people were sticking them into Miatas :lol: I know those motors are capable of 400+rwhp on stock blocks.

[FE3tMX5]

584fwhp on a totally stock Mazda FE3 except for forged 4g63 pistons with race gas and 50 shot nos. Runs 9s over and over and over... :D
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g93/rafi_turbo/PIC-0077.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g93/rafi_turbo/PIC-0076.jpg

[Doppelgänger]

stock Mazda FE3 except for forged 4g63 pistons


Not very stock after that now is it?:lol:
Funny to think that 4g63 pistons fit in there. Then again, i've hear some bastard child of honda pistons in a Mazda (or vise-versa). Is the FE3 similar to the Cosworth 2L over in Europe?

[RotorNutFD3S]

http://www.kruse-schiller-motorsport.com/images/mazda-engine_200x227.jpg


Mazda MZR-R Engine
Designed and Prepared by MazdaSpeed and Advanced Engine Research Ltd (AER)
2000cc, 4 Valves Per Cylinder
Specially designed Honeywell/Garrett turbocharger
Horsepower: Est. 500 bhp
Torque: Est. 400 ft-lb.
Debuted at the 12 Hours of Sebring 2007 and competes in LeMans.

[metalman]

Yeah...yeah...and practical too.
Swap available at Pep Boys for under a grand. :lol:

[RotorNutFD3S]

Sweet! Didn't know PepBoys did that sort of thing. :wtf:

[FE3tMX5]

... 400+rwhp on stock blocks.

I took your word for the stock block part. As in a racing series, stock block usually means you can change all the stuff in the block, but nothing can be done to the block to strengthen it, it must be as it comes from the foundry to the assembly line. This is the case for most production classes- like touring cars etc. That aside, the cosworth is forged, the FE cast, so it's only fair right? :D Best I could find is 393whp on totally stock fe3 running race gas. Oh well...:cry:

I think PepBoys sells CF shelf paper.... just peel and stick on your mani = 500hp :naughty:

[RotorNutFD3S]

That's respectible power!

Damn, shouldn't have had the mani ceramic coated. That CF sure sounds awesome!

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

It seems we have forgotten probably the best 4-cyl swap for a Miata. I've see na MX-5 or two for sale with the engine already swapped too :(

Cosworth 2.0L from the Sierra. Jack, you should be familiar with that motor :) Bet you never thought people were sticking them into Miatas :lol: I know those motors are capable of 400+rwhp on stock blocks.


I knew there was a reason it felt so right ;)

[Doppelgänger]

Racing aside, when I think of "stock block" I think of the crank/rods/pistons being as they were from the factory, that is all.

393? Oh... that's just enough to pass vtec civics on the highway:rolleyes:


The Cosworth is probably the only 4-cyl I'd ever think of swapping.....

[RotorNutFD3S]

Yeah, that's how I think of stock block too. Guess it's just better to specify.

Never even thought about the Cosworth, definitely an interesting idea too.

[wildfire0310]

Racing aside, when I think of "stock block" I think of the crank/rods/pistons being as they were from the factory, that is all.

393? Oh... that's just enough to pass vtec civics on the highway:rolleyes:


The Cosworth is probably the only 4-cyl I'd ever think of swapping.....



I never though of the Cosworth motor. The 4g63 is always been my top choice but that may have to do with there being a 1000hp 2.0L 4g63 in Atlanta now. Any photos of the Cosworth swap.

[RotorNutFD3S]

I never though of the Cosworth motor. The 4g63 is always been my top choice but that may have to do with there being a 1000hp 2.0L 4g63 in Atlanta now. Any photos of the Cosworth swap.


Good grief, where?

[GraffitiPanda]

I got boost now :) I'm good :)

[Doppelgänger]

OK.... now you got to tell us what you picked up!!! banana

[RotorNutFD3S]

Pics or ban. :)

[GraffitiPanda]

it's on it's way from FL. Pics soon

[GraffitiPanda]

it's nothin special but it will work for now

[RotorNutFD3S]

Eh, boost is boost.

[MeFryRice]

You have to give us a hint...

[Sawyer]

Yeah, I'm very curious.

[wildfire0310]

Good grief, where?


Oh in newnan..:D

Here is his last Dyno where he finally broke 1000 without Nitrous. The reason for no torque is that it signal kept dropping off, but the highest was 652.


http://gadsm.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=1716&d=1224543059

http://gadsm.org/imagehosting/26047156c7ea8725.jpg

The best part is he still has yet to dyno with the Nitrous. :D All of that power out of just a little old 2.0L

[MeFryRice]

I've never even heard of that car..:wtf:

[wildfire0310]

I've never even heard of that car..:wtf:


Yea it has been a track only car for almost 2yrs on. He has blown up more motors then almost the whole GADSM board together.

Give me some time and I will collect more information off the other forum and post up some better information.

He part of a group of really nice cars floating around Atl that have kinda kept off most peoples rader, like the 8.88 sec Supra that is still street driven. Mike know all about that Supra, also happens to be someone I am hoping to rent a room from.

[RotorNutFD3S]

Oh ****! I'm pretty sure I've seen that car and talked to the owner when I saw it at the Publix at 138 and 54 one night a long time ago. I stopped going to those weekend "meets" after a kid got shot in the face by another kid. That and the "street races" at Moreland Ave. were getting a little out of hand.

[Doppelgänger]

Clark's Supra is no secret by any means.... but what the hp numbers are.... yes, that's a secret.

I'd like to hit the 400+ rwhpand be that guy with "that miata" :)

[wildfire0310]

Clark's Supra is no secret by any means.... but what the hp numbers are.... yes, that's a secret.

I'd like to hit the 400+ rwhpand be that guy with "that miata" :)


Yea I know Clark's Supra is not really a secret but at the same time, modest about it also so.

oh you want to be like Andy(I think that is his name) from MT.

[wildfire0310]

Oh ****! I'm pretty sure I've seen that car and talked to the owner when I saw it at the Publix at 138 and 54 one night a long time ago. I stopped going to those weekend "meets" after a kid got shot in the face by another kid. That and the "street races" at Moreland Ave. were getting a little out of hand.


Here is a photo of Mike(GADSM) being retarded at a race day.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/TRAYSTi/DSC_0573.jpg

[redrumracer]

yeah. but keep in mind the sr20 was MADE FOR BOOST the miata ISNT now reliability isn't an issue when it comes down to a boosted mx-5 vs SR but the whole power gain the reliability the torque and room for more is awesome!

this is still up in the air but the cage is a for sure. (bumped heads or not) ill just dress like the stig everywhere i go :)


i dont know if anyone has told you this, and im not going to go through 6 pages to find out, but the uhhhh miata motor was made for boost, it has a direct bloodline to a boosted motor.

[GraffitiPanda]

yyeah redrum ur late. And it's a t15 or t25 turbo... Like I said pix soon

[RotorNutFD3S]

T15?! :jawdrop:
Man, I haven't seen one of those in a long time. Will definitely spool fast, not a lot of top end power though. Good start for a 1.6.

[Doppelgänger]

it's probably a t25... Nick has a lot to learn about turbos and we'll be more than happy to help him :cool:

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

Glad you went the right way Nick.

[MeFryRice]

Clark's Supra is no secret by any means.... but what the hp numbers are.... yes, that's a secret.

I'd like to hit the 400+ rwhpand be that guy with "that miata" :)


I know Clark's hp numbers but I'm not one to tell. I've ridden in it before and the only word I can use to describe it is "holy ****".

[ben91]

yyeah redrum ur late. And it's a t15 or t25 turbo... Like I said pix soon

T15? You're going to need 2 of them then.

http://www.shoremotorsports.com/pics/timsmiata/turbover5/Ypipe1.JPG

[RotorNutFD3S]

I can't look at his setup. It tempts me everytime!

[GraffitiPanda]

it's a t25 it just arrived! $20 baby!

[GraffitiPanda]

i have a pic of the turbo with its FAIL parts lol... im ordering FM turbo parts :) they use the t25 on a lot of there tubo kits for 1.6.

in about a month i should be able to grabm up hopefully :)

[GraffitiPanda]

yay! ill bring it to malibu grand prix i need to make a full list...

but a beautiful t25 for $20 even if its just a paper weight rite now...

[wildfire0310]

Clark's Supra is no secret by any means.... but what the hp numbers are.... yes, that's a secret.

I'd like to hit the 400+ rwhpand be that guy with "that miata" :)


I know Clark's hp numbers but I'm not one to tell. I've ridden in it before and the only word I can use to describe it is "holy ****".


Yea as soon as he gets new tires on it, he is going to give me a ride along. He was going to this sunday but after the drag strip on saturday he had nothing left of his DR to even try and play with on the street. I am not to worried about it as I maybe either rooming with him or his buddy Mike, still all in the air.


OP: Nice buy on the T25.

[GraffitiPanda]

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a19/annik5k/IMG_0449-1-1.jpg

[Doppelgänger]

lol wtf? What car was that "kit" designed for? That manifold looks.....scary.

[RotorNutFD3S]

Love how the turbo flange on that manifold is clocked... :wtf:

[wildfire0310]

lol wtf? What car was that "kit" designed for? That manifold looks.....scary.


That is the ebay 1.6 miata turbo kit using a DSM flanged turbo. It is hard to see but under the T25 = FTW you can see the rest of the DP.

[Doppelgänger]

the DP looks all backwards...the whole kit looks backwards....

turbo looks good.

[wildfire0310]

the DP looks all backwards...the whole kit looks backwards....


It looks "right" for a ebay kit. Either way it junk so it doesn't really matter.

[MeFryRice]

I always look at the eBay turbo kits in this perspective, if one can't afford a good quality kit, then they obviously can't afford the maintenance for the up-keep and issues they're going to have down the road.

[GraffitiPanda]

well... i bought this a long time ago from a kid... not ebay... im scraping it and going FM and go miata parts on it.

so dont worry that why i put fail on the P.O.S. MAN. an DP

[RotorNutFD3S]

Well, then he bought it from eBay more than likely. It's right on for one.
But at least you realize the parts are no good. Will save you some headache down the road.

[GraffitiPanda]

oh i know.. nor do they even come close to fitting rite.. LOL!

cheap eBay ****s... ill sellm on craigslist...

[RotorNutFD3S]

Haha! Sell them as universal. :lol:

[GraffitiPanda]

yup! or miata 1.6 turbo manifold and downpipe on ebay to some kid...

[2pt5RS]

+1 for Lethal Injection.

I get most of my work done there. well, let me rephrase that..I use their lift for most of my work I need done....:lol:

Derek is good people...he might be a mASS. hole, but he's good company. :)

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

I loved Derek, great guy to talk to and makes some good music.

[GraffitiPanda]

Indeed