North Korea

[RotorNutFD3S]

First off, please no comments of "let's bomb them back into the stone-age" or anything like that. I want to know what people here are really thinking about what N. Korea's plans/intentions are and what's going on around the whole issue.

Most recent news story: http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/20090402/pl_bloomberg/aiffxa5likds

To start, I've always thought that they've been trying to develop their own long range/tactical nuclear weapons. Now they're dumb enough to threaten revenge/war on neighboring countries who either have superior technology or allies with superior technology if those countries shoot down their "satellite rocket". If that rocket launches though, and it crosses into Japan's airspace, you better believe they'll shoot it down, then there's going to be a real mess if N. Korea makes good on their threat.

[scandmx5]

ehhh...same bull****. he's the Hugo Chavez of the far east, basically whine and threaten **** left and right when truth be told- you know you can't hold good on your promise. especially when your neighboring countries hold superior military strength and technology. (and they don't like you either)

[metalman]

Wacko dictators FTL

Korea, along with Viet Nam & Iraq, are case studies in why America should NOT enage in half assed wars and 'police actions'. War should be avoided at all costs, but once undertaken the enemy should be completely and utterly subdued.

[jester911]

This sword rattling happened during the last administration. I think they got the message then. I think they are wanting to see the reaction from the new administration. The rest of the similar countries like Iran, Pakistan and others will be watching closely. They are all looking for signs of weakness.

[scandmx5]

This sword rattling happened during the last administration. I think they got the message. I think they are wanting to see the reaction from the new administration. The rest of the similar countries like Iran, Pakistan and others will be watching closely. They are all looking for signs of weakness.

very true, like Biden said as with all new admin's...in the first 6months of the new admin/regime in our case lol, someone is gonna push to see if he has a spine or will he bend and cower

[Atlanta93LE]

Korea, along with Viet Nam & Iraq, are case studies in why America should NOT enage in half assed wars and 'police actions'.

Well said, I'd say.

[Doppelgänger]

Wacko dictators FTL



That's such an understatement. That guy never even had any marbles to loose. Fortunatly, he can't live forever and something will have to change....hopefully he won't try to go out with a bang. I'm sure any cnountry that felt threatened by him could turn NK into a glass parking lot with a quickness. I do believe they are bluffing for the most part though.

[ben91]

Wow. I actually agree with all of ya.

Actually, except for Eric... I say we bomb em back to the stone age. :ninja:

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

What is this? A serious discussion where everyone agrees? I have nothing different to say either.

[RotorNutFD3S]

:lmao: Ben. Ya bastid.

It happens Jack. One of those things that must be marked on the calendar. :D

[Sawyer]

What is this? A serious discussion where everyone agrees? I have nothing different to say either.

That's very rare.

[mustangtomiata]

It is very amazing but I think why is because we've all seen the BS of late and also the recent failure of the NK missile that was supposed to fly into orbit and then come back down and land on whatever target they like(or somethin like that)...it flew for 17 seconds. I think our Japanese friends can handle the situation quite well as they have proved great military prowess in the past. Japanese military is :ninja: ...seriously.

[jester911]

I actually think we have more to worry about with Iran right now than N Korea.

[mustangtomiata]

I actually think we have more to worry about with Iran right now than N Korea.


Yes, Iran has AK's and missile...


N. Korea has sling shots and catepults(don't know how to spell that :facepalm: )


As a matter of opinion :lol: I think the South Koreans could handle it all quite well themselves.

[jester911]

Plus there are more countries that will back Iran in their own region.

[mustangtomiata]

Yes that could prove to be a Problem...let's bomb them back to the stone age, of course no will ever be able to tell it was bombed it will still look the same.

[MoD_Scotty]

I understand why Japan wouldn't want random North Korean missiles flying over it's country. From what I've read, they've said they would shoot down any "parts" of the rocket that fall off during flight. Things like lower stage engines that break off....or if it goes out of control and starts heading towards populated areas.

But why shouldn't North Korea be allowed to launch it's own satellites? Who are we (or Japan) to tell them that they're not allowed to put a satellite in space? I understand very well how this kind of rocket/missile technology can be used to deliver a warhead anywhere on the globe...I worked a lot with satellites when I was in the AF, so I was exposed to a lot of the theory behind everything.

I realize Kim Jong-Il is a whacko. I realize he is literally starving his own country, and is easily operating one of the most oppressive regimes on the planet. But his country still has sovereignty over itself and it's actions. Launching a satellite doesn't constitute an imminent threat to anyone. Therefore they should be allowed to put their satellite in orbit.

Now, as far as "bombing them into the stone age," I'm assuming that wasn't a serious comment. Destroying an entire population because of the ridiculousness of it's dictator is pretty silly. The average North Korean, Iranian, Iraqi, or Venezuelan just wants to be able to feed and protect their family, just like everyone else.

As far as Iran, it's not other countries we'd have to worry about if we went to war with them. It's the terrorist organizations they've been funding/training that would be the biggest problem. They now have 6 years of experience in the art of fighting a guerrilla war against the US, not to mention the last 30 years they've been fighting against Israel.

[metalman]

Destroying an entire population because of the ridiculousness of it's dictator is pretty silly.

Although I can certainly appreciate the point that you are making in this context I wouldnt take notion that too far though. That worked fairly well with Hitler and Hirohito. ;)
The notion that its only 'certain factions' or 'just the government' of our enemies nation that is our enemy is one that as a wartime policy that has proven to be a disaster.
I favor the strongest effort to avoid war. I for one do not favor being involved in other nations civil wars etc either. But, once we do declare war on a nation we should utterly and completely destroy them....until like Japan/Germany they come to their senses and humanity shines through.

[jester911]

Yes in Iran it is the terrorist I am speaking of but these terrorist are in Syria and other surrounding countries as well. It appears now though it will be Israel dealing with them in the near future.

[scandmx5]

not to mention the last 30 years they've been fighting against Israel.

who just so happen to be the baddest *** motherphuckers on earth
six day war Israel vs a combined army of 3-4 nations FTMFW!!!!!

[Pitt]

I say let them do what they want as long as its not gonna harm the rest of the world. Who are we to tell the world what to do. They can have 100 nukes for all I care, but the first time they use one in the wrong way or try to pull a hitler and take over the world then we can ***** slap them back in their place.

[scandmx5]

I say let them do what they want as long as its not gonna harm the rest of the world. Who are we to tell the world what to do. They can have 100 nukes for all I care, but the first time they use one in the wrong way or try to pull a hitler and take over the world then we can ***** slap them back in their place.

can you explain how you use a nuke in a good way?? :lol:

[Pitt]

by not using it...its a "just for looks" nuke. Alot of us on here own guns and could kill at any moment, but we don't.

[metalman]

can you explain how you use a nuke in a good way?? :lol:

Two words.....Hiroshima, Nagasaki ;)
Saved millions of lives, including both Japanese & American.

[RotorNutFD3S]

But why shouldn't North Korea be allowed to launch it's own satellites? Who are we (or Japan) to tell them that they're not allowed to put a satellite in space? I understand very well how this kind of rocket/missile technology can be used to deliver a warhead anywhere on the globe...

Actually, it's the U.N. that has told them not to. Why? I haven't looked into all the reasons, but someone feels threatened, that's for sure.

[lawguy85]

No one is facing of with North Korea anytime soon. They keep ****ting all over us b/c they have a million man standing army, and they could sweep through the south before the first bomber leaves Guam. And if China decides to back the north that's nearly 2 1/2 million more troops to contend with even before the millions of reservist mobilize. A modern nuclear detonation on North Korean soil wouldn't only effect the north, it would also produce fallout that would drift in China and South Korea. The likelyhood of China returning fire would almost be assured at that point. They said that this latest round of missile test was a result of generals lobbying for power in the wake of Kim Jong Il's stroke. The best course of action would be to take none. After all, they claimed to detonate a nuke, but that was a lie so we have no reason to believe this middle could actually reach Hawaii. As someone said above our fight right now should be with Iran. We've beaten the Republican Guard time and time again when they've ventured into Iraq, and we actually have CIA operatives in place for post invasion plans. And unlike China with North Korea, Russia really doesn't have a vested interest in defending Iran aside from having a patsy to sell inferior technology to (and they have plenty of those in Latin America). We can underestimate the North Koreans technology all day, but a million guys armed with AKs isn't anything to scoff at.

[scandmx5]

Two words.....Hiroshima, Nagasaki ;)
Saved millions of lives, including both Japanese & American.

easy for you to say as an American huh? Imagine being an innocent Japanese child, would you still think that nuke is good? Im with the majority on this one, but wanted to know how a nuke is "good"

...then to the "alot of us on here own guns"...i do as well- in hopes that I never have to use it (outside of sporting) but I don't consider it a "good" thing beings how it's a must in this day and age of desperation, financial harship, and maniacs.

[Pitt]

...then to the "alot of us on here own guns"...i do as well- in hopes that I never have to use it (outside of sporting) but I don't consider it a "good" thing beings how it's a must in this day and age of desperation, financial harship, and maniacs.

I know right? And you don't want some country trying to take it away from you right? That is why N. Korea is so "F YOU 'MERICA", you can take our nuke when you pry it from our cold dead fingers. So I say its their right to have a nuke if they can...we should just make sure they respect it.

[scandmx5]

I know right? And you don't want some country trying to take it away from you right? That is why N. Korea is so "F YOU 'MERICA", you can take our nuke when you pry it from our cold dead fingers. So I say its their right to have a nuke if they can...we should just make sure they respect it.

AGREED :banana:
lawguy forgot to mention how many Americans tote guns-legally and illegally -well up in the millions...not including the military :lmao: china can barely feed their army, and citizens are disarmed... i think we'd be aight...now i wanna go watch Red Dawn lol

[Pitt]

Foot soldiers are useless today...when we can shoot missles off shore and destroy a thousand at a time, who cares how many soldiers you have? Thats just more targets to our military tech.

[amaff]

http://punditkitchen.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/political-pictures-kim-jong-il-wife-surplus.jpg

[MoD_Scotty]

No one is facing of with North Korea anytime soon. They keep ****ting all over us b/c they have a million man standing army, and they could sweep through the south before the first bomber leaves Guam. And if China decides to back the north that's nearly 2 1/2 million more troops to contend with even before the millions of reservist mobilize. ... We can underestimate the North Koreans technology all day, but a million guys armed with AKs isn't anything to scoff at.

I've actually read studies about how malnutrition effects things like intelligence, combat readiness, etc, regarding North Korea's armed forces. I think the situation they are in now would make them about as effective as Iraq's regular army was. In other words, they'd probably rather hand over their AKs to get 3 meals a day and eventually return to their families in one piece.

But like it was said earlier, a conventional war with N Korea would never happen. Why? Because we've been preparing for that situation for the last 50 years, and I'm pretty sure that we have figured out how to come out ahead. It's not like it'd be a surprise if N Korea decided to invade. We have been scrutinizing the border and the rest of their military forces since the 1940s. We not only have thousands of troops constantly stationed in S Korea, but we also have a fat chunk of the intelligence apparatus watching them. Trust me, we know when their generals are taking a dump, let alone mobilizing a MILLION troops.

OK, as much as I love talking shop...I gotta get back to studying!

[GVfanatic]

well after much deliberation and research with fellow collegues and rocket scientists i think we should bomb those brain washing cult government worshiping zombies back into the stone-age. HAHAHAHA:clap::butt::banana::lol:

[RotorNutFD3S]

:facepalm:

[GVfanatic]

:facepalm:

thought you might like my intuitive information.:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[RotorNutFD3S]

Right... got anything realistic to add to the thread?

[GVfanatic]

Right... got anything realistic to add to the thread?

yes. kim jong is a slant eyed hitler!

[metalman]

easy for you to say as an American huh? Imagine being an innocent Japanese child, would you still think that nuke is good?

The 'sacrifice' of 'innocent' lives in Japan was well worth it to mankind.
All of us, especially Japan. It actually saved countless Japanese lives.
There's no need to feel bad about it. I definitely do not.
They attacked the USA remember?

Unfortunately the same thing couldnt be done to Germany...and sooner.
Think of the millions that may have been spared if it could have. Even so German citizens suffered plenty. I know people personally that lived through Allied bombing raids in Germany. It was hell for them. They lost family members and kids died there too. Boo hoo, too fvckin bad. Germany dropped enough bombs and specially designed trick stuff on Britian (that killed innocent British citizens) to make most countries buckle. Thank god for British resolve!

Japan earned everything they rec'd. Their attack on Pearl Harbor, their blatant disregard for human rights and treatment of prisoners, their resolve to die to the last man, woman, and child for their 'honor' are all reasons enough for the US to rightly consider them ALL enemies at that time. (not unlike our Arab enemies really)

Thankfully we had leaders then that didnt have some namby pamby ***** *** approach to war. If they did, we might all be speaking German or Japanese.....well not all of us, just those of us not Jewish, gay, black, or handicapped, or those who were not considered otherwise "inferior"....and those willing to shut up and not live free.

And as for Japan, as a country theyre better for it. Those nukes may have even saved their culture and way of life.

Individuals (children etc) ALWAYS suffer in war. If they arent killed by bombs etc they are subjected to the deaths of their fathers and mothers. If one doesnt have the stomach for making others suffer, or to sign up for some suffering themselves, one should NEVER enter into nor favor any military action or war. Ever!

[lawguy85]

AGREED :banana:
lawguy forgot to mention how many Americans tote guns-legally and illegally -well up in the millions...not including the military :lmao: china can barely feed their army, and citizens are disarmed... i think we'd be aight...now i wanna go watch Red Dawn lol

What? I was talking standing army, trained soldiers who are career military. They don't need training and they can mobilize instantly. As for foot wars being antiquated, we started "Shock and Aweing" the Afghans in fall 2001, but were still fighting there today. North Korea is know for their intricate tunnels, and so far the MOAB hasn't even been that sucessful against natural caves; the odds of it wiping our their tunnels in an effective manner isn't looking too good. As for letting any country have nukes, it really comes down to whether mutually assured destruction resonates with that country. That probably applies to North Korea, but I'm not too sure Iran wouldn't be above trying to speed up the day of armegeddon. While I'm sure some North Koreans would defect, all they been exposed to is propaganda all their lives. All they know is their country and all they have is national pride. If you're willing to fight for your country why wouldn't they?

[scandmx5]

The 'sacrifice' of 'innocent' lives in Japan was well worth it to mankind.
All of us, especially Japan. It actually saved countless Japanese lives.
There's no need to feel bad about it. I definitely do not.
They attacked the USA remember?

Unfortunately the same thing couldnt be done to Germany...and sooner.
Think of the millions that may have been spared if it could have. Even so German citizens suffered plenty. I know people personally that lived through Allied bombing raids in Germany. It was hell for them. They lost family members and kids died there too. Boo hoo, too fvckin bad. Germany dropped enough bombs and specially designed trick stuff on Britian (that killed innocent British citizens) to make most countries buckle. Thank god for British resolve!

Japan earned everything they rec'd. Their attack on Pearl Harbor, their blatant disregard for human rights and treatment of prisoners, their resolve to die to the last man, woman, and child for their 'honor' are all reasons enough for the US to rightly consider them ALL enemies at that time. (not unlike our Arab enemies really)

Thankfully we had leaders then that didnt have some namby pamby ***** *** approach to war. If they did, we might all be speaking German or Japanese.....well not all of us, just those of us not Jewish, gay, black, or handicapped, or those who were not considered otherwise "inferior"....and those willing to shut up and not live free.

And as for Japan, as a country theyre better for it. Those nukes may have even saved their culture and way of life.

Individuals (children etc) ALWAYS suffer in war. If they arent killed by bombs etc they are subjected to the deaths of their fathers and mothers. If one doesnt have the stomach for making others suffer, or to sign up for some suffering themselves, one should NEVER enter into nor favor any military action or war. Ever!

true i have 2 great uncles that were SS Volunteers :lol:
'twas they who were killin Allies

sorry :(

[MoD_Scotty]

They launched it:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7982874.stm

And as far as I know, the world did not end. I also am not speaking Korean now.

[redrumracer]

political assassination is the key to all problems.

[mustangtomiata]

:lol: at amaff still. On a serious note though I don't think North Korea is going to be an immediate threat and lawguy has a very good point in that since they were born all they've been told was propoganda about their country and they would fight for it without hesitation IMO. As for the oppression, I'm half Polish and all but 5 people from my moms side of the family, including kids, died in the holocaust so I have so sympathy for dictators and would cut their throats if I ever had the opportunity...I'm not trying to be funny. People ask me all the time why I don't join the service, which I was whole hearted on doing, but I didn't because my mom absolutely couldn't handle me doing it and my dad was exactly eager for me to do it either(it surprised me, he was in the Army and always talks about it), especially when I told my recruiter I wanted to go through the front lines.

[lance]

They launched it:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7982874.stm

And as far as I know, the world did not end. I also am not speaking Korean now.

But it did hold up my flight to tokyo for 5 hours while they cleared the airspace.

Sitting in Tokyo as I type this.

[MoD_Scotty]

but it did hold up my flight to tokyo for 5 hours while they cleared the airspace.

Sitting in tokyo as i type this.

luhcky!

[tbone heller]

The Obama administration sure picked a good time to cancel advance weapons programs.

[metalman]

The Obama administration sure picked a good time to cancel advance weapons programs.

If Obama wants to cut spending he should start with 98% of the pork crap he's wasted money on already! :lol:

[amaff]

If Obama wants to cut spending he should start with 98% of the pork crap he's wasted money on already! :lol:

you mean the stuff that he wasn't ever going to sign?



Oh wait...

[metalman]

you mean the stuff that he wasn't ever going to sign?



Oh wait...

Just bills he promised all would have at least 5 days to review before voting.......


...oh wait!! :lol:

[FlipKing]

I know you said dont say this...but I say dont bomb them.....send Missiles :) Just blow up their capital. End of story :)

[amaff]

Just bills he promised all would have at least 5 days to review before voting.......


...oh wait!! :lol:
eggzachary

[GVfanatic]

political assassination is the key to all problems.

i agree 150%. DEATH TO KIM!!!!:banana:

and his brainwashing military.

[mustangtomiata]

i agree 150%. DEATH TO KIM!!!!:banana:

and his brainwashing military.

I'll do a +1 to that. Hell I wouldn't mind being the assasin.

[GVfanatic]

I'll do a +1 to that. Hell I wouldn't mind being the assasin.

same here. just tie him to a pole and let me have fun takin pot shots at him with a horribly inaccurate gun so i can watch him pee his pants before the bullet that rids this earth of that Korean Nazi hits him.

[mustangtomiata]

Yeah lol but I mean I would like to be a real trained assasin. Totally under the radar, no one knows who you are, sneak around. Return under the radar. I wouldn't mind being one of the most deadly people in the world.

[GVfanatic]

Yeah lol but I mean I would like to be a real trained assasin. Totally under the radar, no one knows who you are, sneak around. Return under the radar. I wouldn't mind being one of the most deadly people in the world.

i gotcha. i'm more of the guy that would pee on him and humilate him and get it caught on CNN.

[Redraceface]

very true, like Biden said as with all new admin's...in the first 6months of the new admin/regime in our case lol, someone is gonna push to see if he has a spine or will he bend and cower

Well it happened the day after North Korea launched it's rocket the dummies on capital hill decided that it would be a good idea to cut defense spending by a third... what a great idea!!! what will they think of next?

[mustangtomiata]

That the military is a waste of the tax payers money, so they will also cut military funding by half and use it to increase welfare checks and teach illegal immigrants how to speak English(or us to speak Spanish) and then pay for their citizenship.

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

That the military is a waste of the tax payers money, so they will also cut military funding by half and use it to increase welfare checks and teach illegal immigrants how to speak English(or us to speak Spanish) and then pay for their citizenship.

Well would each of those areas be a bad thing? It's not exactly hard to cut down on the ridiculous military expenditure, simply leaving Iraq would do that.

[RotorNutFD3S]

Yes each of those areas is a bad thing.
Welfare for the most part keeps the lazy from getting off their asses and doing anything productive. I feel bad for the people that actually need it, but too many people abuse the system.
Illegal immigrants should be deported and learn how to enter this country legally. They also should enter this country with the attitude that people used to come to this country with, we shouldn't be handing them everything on a silver platter, especially when there are so many other issues within the country that need addressing.
Military spending isn't so much the problem, it's the deals the military has cut with the independant contractors who overcharge for everything they do. Not to say that the military doesn't spend a lot themselves, they definitely do, but they need to trim the fat.

[BFH miata]

^ amen, preach it!^

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

Yes each of those areas is a bad thing.
Welfare for the most part keeps the lazy from getting off their asses and doing anything productive. I feel bad for the people that actually need it, but too many people abuse the system.

So what's wrong with fixing it rather than completely criticising it as a concept on the whole?

Illegal immigrants should be deported and learn how to enter this country legally.

It's extremely difficult to enter this country legally from a Western European Nation let alone from a country as messy as Mexico.

They also should enter this country with the attitude that people used to come to this country with, we shouldn't be handing them everything on a silver platter, especially when there are so many other issues within the country that need addressing.

Now, a few may be of that attitude but the vast majority of illegal immigrants are hard workers doing the jobs most think they're too good for. There are bad apples with every bunch, but the majority of these bad apples come from the fact that the system is so screwed up that it's often easier to be a bum than it is to work.

Military spending isn't so much the problem, it's the deals the military has cut with the independant contractors who overcharge for everything they do. Not to say that the military doesn't spend a lot themselves, they definitely do, but they need to trim the fat.

Deals cut with independant contractors still fall under military spending under my books. I'm not saying cut all spending, but a good deal of it is wasted and it needs to be investigated.

[wildfire0310]

Illegal immigrants should be deported and learn how to enter this country legally.

It's extremely difficult to enter this country legally from a Western European Nation let alone from a country as messy as Mexico.


The problem is that so many are coming in illegally and just abusing the system, such going to Cali hospital giving birth and then jumping ship. Leaving Cali to pay the bill. Also the other issue is that one will come in legally and habor 15 illegals. The one legal will work out a deal so he get paid for all the illegals(so on book it looks as if the company is just paying on man or group which is legal).

I personally have no problem with most immirgrants and I know that my family came from Canada and before that France. What my problem is that, they are skipping out on paying taxes(flat tax for the win) and cause other issues for legal residents. Trust me if you ever get in a car wreak and find out the person who hits you is an illegal immirgrant without insurance you be pissed. I know i was.

[RotorNutFD3S]

Yes each of those areas is a bad thing.
Welfare for the most part keeps the lazy from getting off their asses and doing anything productive. I feel bad for the people that actually need it, but too many people abuse the system.

So what's wrong with fixing it rather than completely criticising it as a concept on the whole?

Nothing is wrong with fixing it, and I'm certainly not criticizing the idea one bit, but will we ever see that happen? Likely not, too many gov't officials getting their pockets lined with other "areas of interest". Anytime Welfare Reform is brought up, nothing ever happens. It just stays in it's constant cycle of screwed-up abuse.


Illegal immigrants should be deported and learn how to enter this country legally.

It's extremely difficult to enter this country legally from a Western European Nation let alone from a country as messy as Mexico.

So?! It's extremely difficult for a lot of people to get a job and make money right now, does that make it ok them to rob and/or murder other people to provide for their families?

They also should enter this country with the attitude that people used to come to this country with, we shouldn't be handing them everything on a silver platter, especially when there are so many other issues within the country that need addressing.

Now, a few may be of that attitude but the vast majority of illegal immigrants are hard workers doing the jobs most think they're too good for. There are bad apples with every bunch, but the majority of these bad apples come from the fact that the system is so screwed up that it's often easier to be a bum than it is to work.

I'm not talking about illegal immigrants there, I'm referring to immigrants that enter legally and expect to be given everything to start their lives here. That's not how it used to work, and it shouldn't be now, although the gov't hasn't done a good job controlling spending there either.

As far as illegal immigrants doing the jobs no one else wants, it's a valid point, but that doesn't justify them being here illegally. Take the unemployed line and the welfare line, and put them in those jobs if they can't find, or aren't qualified for, anything else, and stop giving them handouts. Then you'll either fill those jobs, or you'll find that the unemployed and welfare recipients find better jobs much faster than normal because they don't want the crappy jobs.

Military spending isn't so much the problem, it's the deals the military has cut with the independant contractors who overcharge for everything they do. Not to say that the military doesn't spend a lot themselves, they definitely do, but they need to trim the fat.

Deals cut with independant contractors still fall under military spending under my books. I'm not saying cut all spending, but a good deal of it is wasted and it needs to be investigated.

It's all gov't spending really, and that's the problem. The gov't definintely isn't cutting their own spending right now, and to top it all off, too many people in power are lining their own pockets and have so much money that they don't give a damn how you and I are making it in the real world.

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

Eric, using that font colour is cheating :lol: I feel like Stevie Wonder.

[RotorNutFD3S]

Well you made it hard as hell to use the quote function in the first place! :lol:

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

The problem is that so many are coming in illegally and just abusing the system, such going to Cali hospital giving birth and then jumping ship. Leaving Cali to pay the bill. Also the other issue is that one will come in legally and habor 15 illegals. The one legal will work out a deal so he get paid for all the illegals(so on book it looks as if the company is just paying on man or group which is legal).

I personally have no problem with most immirgrants and I know that my family came from Canada and before that France. What my problem is that, they are skipping out on paying taxes(flat tax for the win) and cause other issues for legal residents. Trust me if you ever get in a car wreak and find out the person who hits you is an illegal immirgrant without insurance you be pissed. I know i was.

I understand and agree with your feelings. But sending them all back is impossible and won't fix the problem. So make them legal and force them to use the system and progress with our rules.

[amaff]

The gov't definintely isn't cutting their own spending right now

understatement of the century

[wildfire0310]

I understand and agree with your feelings. But sending them all back is impossible and won't fix the problem. So make them legal and force them to use the system and progress with our rules.

That or make it harder for them to function as illegal immigrants. I do agree that is it is really hard to send the one that are here back but we can try and stop more from coming in and make it so the ones here don't get any benefits.