Hit pothole, now steering is messed up

[nathanbw]

Hi guys,

The good news is that I went to my first SCCA solo event yesterday as a Novice, and had a great time!

The bad news is that while the instructor was driving my car, we spun out near the end of the course and hit essentially the only pothole in the whole parking lot.

The best we can tell is that the driver-side front wheel hit the hole. When it hit, there was a terrible cracking sound (it sounded like we ran over a large rock and cracked something in half.)

The tread (near the side wall) of the driver-side front tire has a chip in it and now the car has a large amount of toe-out. The steering wheel is no longer centered when driving forward, and the car pulls hard to the right. There is some vibration in the pedals while driving that wasn't present before (I'm really hoping that is just the effects of the toe-out, and nothing is seriously broken or scraping.)

Before the event, the car was as close to perfect alignment as I can imagine, as it was always steady on center, didn't pull to either direction, and steering feel was excellent.

We visually inspected underneath all four wheels, and nothing was visibly bent or cracked.

My questions for you are: has this ever happened to you? Can the steering rack be inspected for damage? Is it reasonable to be worried that the rack is damaged? Any ideas on what was the most likely source of the noise on impact?

Also, are there any good alignment shops near Alpharetta? RSpeed is really excellent, but I don't want to drive the car that far with potential serious damage.

Thanks for you time!

PS This is a 99 with power steering, all stock.

[FooSchnickens]

This type thing is not uncommon when you take a big hit like that.

Just get it to any alignment shop for now. They'll be able to tell if it has any real damage or if your settings just got completely frazzled. Either way, they can adjust it back to where you can drive it a decent distance without worrying or be able to fix it completely with a few adjustments.

If you can turn the wheel without resistance or grinding from lock to lock your rack is probably fine. If you're super paranoid you could try to drain the PS fluid and see if there are any shavings/chunks in it. Otherwise just keep driving it until you start feeling something is wrong.

As far as what scraped, it could be any one of a number of things. It could have been the tire scraping on the fender liner, subframe/frame rail scraping the pavement, control arm scraping the pavement, bumper skin scraping the pavement, paula deen scraping the pavement, etc. You apparently bottomed out pretty darn hard so it's to be expected that things that normally don't come into contact with each other came into contact with each other. It could hurt to get the car up on stands and really examine that corner of the car with the wheel off just to be sure.

[epilonious]

Fooshnickens speaks the truth.

Just take it to the closest Kaufman tire or ITB or whatever, get it up on a rack, and they'll be able to twist it back to where it should be and find any bits that are obviously bent or cracked.

[nathanbw]

Thanks guys; I'll hit up the neighborhood Kaufman Tire in the morning. I was just a little freaked out by the sound, and sad my baby needs the doctor.

[nathanbw]

I took it to Kauffman, who did an alignment check on their rack. The driver-side front wheel is so far out of a alignment that they recommended starting by replacing the upper and lower control arms, and then re-checking the alignment, at a cost of $1400.

The bends aren't visible to the (my) naked eye; the only indication that they are bent is that the wheel is very far out of spec. Does all this sound reasonable?

Here are the numbers:

|-------------+---------------+--------|
| Measurement | Range | Actual |
|-------------+---------------+--------|
| Camber | -1.2 to 0.8 | 2.0 |
|-------------+---------------+--------|
| Caster | 5.3 to 7.3 | 8.0 |
|-------------+---------------+--------|
| Toe | -0.05 to 0.35 | -3.07 |
|-------------+---------------+--------|What do you think? If the arms do need to be replaced, I'm in the market for some used ones. I'll do the installation myself, and then take it for an alignment after I've installed them.

[metalman]

Two control arms shouldn't cost anything remotely near $1400.

[Stealth97]

That price is a complete rip off. Buying used and replacing yourself is the way to go... Plenty of folks and vendors here would have good used ones.

[friday]

Yeah, if you are somewhat comfortable working on cars you should be able to replace the control arms yourself. Buy some used ones local for a good price.

[nathanbw]

Thanks for the help, guys. I thought $1400 was a tad on the high side, especially since the guy at the shop said that would be a starting point.

I'm reading more about alignment. At the very least, I want to learn how to adjust the toe-in properly and get that close to spec. I'm a little concerned since the toe is so much farther out of spec than the rest of the settings, yet the guy at Kaufmann didn't mention fixing or replacing any tie rods and had no word on the steering rack. I just don't see how yanking one wheel 2 degrees out from the other didn't cause some damage to a steering component.

[tbone heller]

Inspect the control arm closely as well as the steering knuckle. Look for cracked or peeling paint as this is a tell-tale sign of damage. Also inspect the mounting points of the sub-frame to see if it may have shifted. What are the alignment readings for the other side of the car? If the front lower eccentric slipped, allowing the lower control arm to move inboard, that would account for the positive camber & caster as well as the negative toe. Or if the rear eccentric moved outwards, it would result in similar readings.

[FooSchnickens]

That price is a complete rip off. Buying used and replacing yourself is the way to go... Plenty of folks and vendors here would have good used ones.

This. RSpeed, planet miata or partsgroup should have all you need.

[HoBuster7]

I am not trying to freak you out but if you have all those symptoms you ought not drive that car. It needs to be examined from underneath by an EXPERIENCED mechanic (not Kauffman Tire) to determine what the car needs and does not need.

Sorry dude but it is probably unsafe. Maybe limp it to someone you know with a lift.

YOU MUST RACK THE CAR TO CORRECTLY INSPECT THE STEERING AND SUSPENSION

[nathanbw]

Inspect the control arm closely as well as the steering knuckle. Look for cracked or peeling paint as this is a tell-tale sign of damage. Also inspect the mounting points of the sub-frame to see if it may have shifted. What are the alignment readings for the other side of the car? If the front lower eccentric slipped, allowing the lower control arm to move inboard, that would account for the positive camber & caster as well as the negative toe. Or if the rear eccentric moved outwards, it would result in similar readings.

tbone_heller ftw!

I took the car to my friend's house (who was driving when we hit the hole) and we put the front up on jack stands. We measured every thing we could think of, comparing the right side to the left. Everything we measured (as best we could with a straight ruler, measuring tape, and string) checked out, except that the right front lower control arm adjustment seemed to be adjusted closer to the center of the car than the left one.

We pulled out the camber adjustment bolt and saw where the adjustment plate had thread marks from the bolt being rammed into it. It had obviously slipped to its farthest setting on impact.

Everything else having been inspected to the best of our ability (the two sides were as identical as we could tell,) we decided to put the adjustment bolt back in. We just eyeballed it (with the wheels off,) trying to make it match the other side.

All symptoms disappeared. No weird vibration, the steering wheel is straight on center, the car doesn't pull to either side, and according to the naked eye, the negative camber and toe out are all back to normal!

I'm taking the car for a full alignment as soon as I can, but for the time being, I can get back and forth to work without worrying about ruining my tires and other components.

It's amazing how that one mounting point for the lower control arm resulted in such a huge misalignment, and even more amazing that we eyeballed it back so close to the previous setting.

I am not trying to freak you out but if you have all those symptoms you ought not drive that car. It needs to be examined from underneath by an EXPERIENCED mechanic (not Kauffman Tire) to determine what the car needs and does not need.

Sorry dude but it is probably unsafe. Maybe limp it to someone you know with a lift.

YOU MUST RACK THE CAR TO CORRECTLY INSPECT THE STEERING AND SUSPENSION

I appreciate your concern, HoBuster7. I believe was appropriately freaked out as soon as it happened. I limped back from autocross slowly, and practically walked the car to work today and to my buddy's garage. I'll be taking it for a full alignment (with new camber adjustment bolts) ASAP. At least for now it's straight enough to make it out to the shop.

Thanks for all the replies! I'll post a pick of the worn out camber adjustment bolt when I get the car aligned with new bolts.

[friday]

Depending on the mileage of the car you might want to replace them all anyways.

[nathanbw]

I brought the car to Gran Turismo East and they did an excellent alignment. I forgot to ask for the damaged adjustment cam, so I didn't get a picture of it.

I saw that Flyin' Miata had genuine Mazda cams for $8.75 apiece, which is a much better deal than the $22 the local dealership wanted to charge. Ultimately, I ended up getting some used cams (in great condition) from Mazmart for $5 apiece. We only replaced the damaged one, though, since all the others were still in good shape (70k miles on the car.)

I'm still somewhat in disbelief over what Kauffman tried to do. There were no damaged components in my car (aside from the adjustment cam, which was still serviceable, just loose.) This whole experience has been an education on the importance of education; the only way to get things done right is to learn about them yourself and make the appropriate decisions.

Thanks to GT East for being a great shop and doing stellar alignments.

[jester911]

So you were quoted 1400 for the repair at Kaufman. What did it end up costing you going the direction you went out of curiousity?

[amaff]

Sounds like a few bucks for the cam and IIRC ~$75 for the alignment at GTE. And yes, GTE does do absolute top-notch work.

You said "hit a pothole" and "alignment messed up" to those guys @ Kauffman and they just saw dollar signs. That's why I stay away from chains and try and either do my own work, or stick to locally reputable shops.

[nathanbw]

jester911: I bought four cams at $5 apiece (only needed one,) and GTE did the alignment and installed the new cam for a total of $105, so the whole ordeal cost me $125 at the end of the day.

amaff: Agreed. A good shop that is willing to talk to you about the work and tell you the truth is worth its weight in gold.

Doing work yourself is also incredibly valuable. For this one, I didn't have an entire day to set up a level surface and do the alignment myself (like this guy: http://www.quadesl.com/miata_alignment.html) so GTE was absolutely worth it. Especially since I wanted some advice about my front toe (decided to go with a dab of toe-in, which is better for tire wear and slightly more stable at speed.)

[tbone heller]

Glad you were able to get it fixed.