hand guns

[move101]

I am looking into buying a Hand gun for home defense. What is everyones opinions on them. i am a newbe on guns, never fired or own one.

[miata5620]

For home defense a shotgun is a better home defense weapon than a pistol IMO. If you have never handled firearms before you should find a friend who has a lot of experience with them or take a safety class to get yourself familiar with them.

[doombastic]

Perhaps you should consider taking a class as mentioned above and spending some time at your local range. Most have pretty cheap rental guns so that you can get acclimated to handling a firearm and tests out different types/caliburs etc.

As for my opinion... i like guns

[oldgrayfrog]

Given the lack of experience, and I'm willing to bet that as many guys here that own guns, that I am probably one of the few that actually have fired them while getting fired upon, I agree with the shotgun. First, it won't penetrate your walls and kill the neighbors, a real possibility with handgun loads and thin drywall. Two, the shotgun sprays a pattern of pellets. In a 12 ga. shotgun, each of which will be about >38 caliber each., third, the sound of a shotgun being racked may be enough to get an intruder to change their mind and leave. Four, aim in the general vicinity of the bad guy, make sure it's not you friend Bob come to steal that last beer, then eliminate your problem. I have taught literally thousands of service members to fire weapons, the great majority did not become expert marksmen, however I taught each of them to use a shotgun. I have a foolproof method that i can teach in five minutes, buy one and I'll teach you. If you want to get a handgun, then go get lessons, and go to the range, a lot. Hope that you fire enough to make it instinctual.

[scandmx5]

Shotgun. Cheaper than a pistol, ammo is cheap, and it's hard to miss.
Load it with some Winchester PDX1 (slug w/ buck shot behind it) and you're good to go. If that's not what you want, then go to a local gun range and they have rental guns you can shoot. Try them out and see what you like. Everyone is going to tell you what gun THEY think you should have, but you're the one who needs to be comfortable and trust in your weapon. As far as that goes, I wouldn't recommend anything SMALLER than a 9mm.

[780racer]

For cheap i recommend, but maybe not others the Smith and Wesson sigma series in 9mm or .40 cal(They sell for about 250, and i have some local shops i could recommend if you want that price just PM me). I do agree with them if for ONLY home defense a hand gun is less of a newbie weapon, and requires a lot more skill with a firearm, although if you ever wanted to carry, a pistol would be a better option. The real question is, are you going to buy it and never shoot it, or want this to become a hobby. After you ask yourself that, go with what everyone has said. I like a handgun as a self defense/home defense/carry weapon. But they require more skill, and shooting them is more expensive, and the chances of going threw walls even with a hollow point are very high, But this is something you cant ask and get a answer that will fit you, you need to go fire guns, and see if your even ready for something like a handgun.

OGF has it right, i have never been fired at before, but i know from other resources that it is VERY nerve racking, and firing a pistol vs a shotgun.... well the shotgun will be easier to hit a target than a pistol, esp. at 4am when they come threw the door, and your so tired you might as well be drunk.....

[dmonroe2008]

Given the lack of experience, and I'm willing to bet that as many guys here that own guns, that I am probably one of the few that actually have fired them while getting fired upon, I agree with the shotgun. First, it won't penetrate your walls and kill the neighbors, a real possibility with handgun loads and thin drywall. Two, the shotgun sprays a pattern of pellets. In a 12 ga. shotgun, each of which will be about >38 caliber each., third, the sound of a shotgun being racked may be enough to get an intruder to change their mind and leave. Four, aim in the general vicinity of the bad guy, make sure it's not you friend Bob come to steal that last beer, then eliminate your problem. I have taught literally thousands of service members to fire weapons, the great majority did not become expert marksmen, however I taught each of them to use a shotgun. I have a foolproof method that i can teach in five minutes, buy one and I'll teach you. If you want to get a handgun, then go get lessons, and go to the range, a lot. Hope that you fire enough to make it instinctual.


^^ listen to him. he sums it up great! I have had the opportunity to fire many weapons seeing as I'm in the army. If oldgreyfrog is offering to teach you to fire a shotgun (even tho its not hard) id take him up on it. Just take your time don't rust it and make sure you know how to use the weapon before you go using it. i.e. cleaning, clearing, safety. They are not to be taken lightly, one wrong move and you could make a bad mistake.

[AllMotor]

I'm in on the shotgun boat. I've got a 9mm for carry and a 12ga autoloader that was my home defense gun. Recently, though, I picked up a Taurus Judge as the bedside gun. I don't recommend it as a first gun, but for several reasons (small size, .410 shotgun & .45 loads, etc.) I do love it for home defense.

My unsolicited advice? Go take a class, then get a Mossberg 500/Remington 870.

If you're stuck on handguns, though, I agree with the above- go out and rent a few, see what fits in the hand, evaluate recoil, etc. and go from there. Don't be afraid to spend a little extra- you'll be glad you did if you ever have to use it.

-John

[oldgrayfrog]

REM 870, I've actually had a Mossberg come apart on me more than once at a range, thus, I always had an 870 when the job called for a shotgun. Got really pissed when the defense weapons center at Crane, Indiana refused to give the different weapons different order codes. I'd order 10 12 ga. shotguns and get 6 Mossbergs and 4 Remingtons. Besides the fact that I had to have parts for a weapon I didn't trust, it pissed me off. I spent a lot of my Uncles money sending back "bad" Mossbergs. Crane never got the hint.

[doombastic]

I agree with the above statements regarding shotguns. They will clear a hall/room from the hip. The drawback IMO is the length. Mobility is reduced in tight spaces.

[scandmx5]

I agree with the above statements regarding shotguns. They will clear a hall/room from the hip. The drawback IMO is the length. Mobility is reduced in tight spaces.
That's why you have a shotgun! To blow the tight spaces the f*** out the way!

[Bob_Bobber0]

Im curious as well (although I have some firearms experience). Personally I find the Glock 19 to be the perfect size for my hands. The 9mm recoil is manageable and is fun to take to the range for practice.

I'm gunna look into the Rem 870 for the townhouse since I just moved out. As for safely storing weapons in the home, is a gun safe imperative?

[miata5620]

I'm gunna look into the Rem 870 for the townhouse since I just moved out. As for safely storing weapons in the home, is a gun safe imperative?

I do not think they are imperative but you need to have a trigger lock or something else to keep the weapon in question from being fired by someone besides yourself.

[jester911]

If you have young children you should have a safe IMHO.

[miata5620]

If you have young children you should have a safe IMHO.

I agree.

[dingo7]

Step 1: Buy a JUDGE
Step 2:Load 2 410 rounds then 45 rounds
Step 3:Place in you night stand and wait to **** someone up.

[miata5620]

Step 1: Buy a JUDGE
Step 2:Load 2 410 rounds then 45 rounds
Step 3:Place in you night stand and wait to **** someone up.

I like the judge as a carry weapon but I would still rather have a shotgun for home defense.

On a side note no matter what you get you will want a good flashlight mounted on the weapon or separate . It takes practice if you have it separate from the weapon so you can get use to manipulating both at the same time.

[move101]

Thank you for all the opinions. I didn't not know this many have guns here on the site. But I never did think of the Shotgun, i will look into it. I am also going to look into a 9mm for the wife and her late night job (RN).

[miata5620]

I am also going to look into a 9mm for the wife and her late night job (RN).

If you plan on doing that you and your wife should go and get a concealed/ carry permit.

[oldgrayfrog]

The wife should get a concealed carry permit, not hard to get in GA., you can get one too if so inclined. Hell no on the 9mm for the wife. It will either be too big for her to carry in her purse, or too small to effectively control recoil. Little guns with big bullets sting and bite when fired. Buy her a little J frame S&W, there was a guy selling one on here, not a J frame but similar, it was a hammerless design,great to NOT get caught taking it out of the purse, and small enough to put in a coat pocket. Great for when you don't want to be bothered to draw, just fire through the coat! Seriously though, in the meantime, until Ya'll are little Wyatt Earp gunfighters, get her some pepper spray. True Value sells good stuff for about $19, it will F+ck a body up if you get it in the eyes and nose. Do not try out its effectiveness unless your name is Johnny Knoxville.

[NA6R]

Thank you for all the opinions. I didn't not know this many have guns here on the site. But I never did think of the Shotgun, i will look into it. I am also going to look into a 9mm for the wife and her late night job (RN).

quick and easy job termination path from most hospitals.

[miata5620]

I have to say I agree with OGF about the j frame over a 9mm. For an inexperienced shooter a nice revolver is the best carry weapon IMO. If you ever needed to use it in the heat of the moment it is simple easy to fire and can't jam. If you get a failure to fire you just pull the trigger again. In a auto you will have to pull the slide back and chamber a new round, or if it jammed you will have to clear the weapon and re chamber it. In all honestly a inexperienced shooter will not be able to do all of this quickly so why not just stick with something simple

If she is a RN at a hospital I would check into there rules about firearms on the property a lot of them do not allow them even with permits unless you are a law enforcement officer.

[amaff]

Why not a 9mm J-frame? They make 'em. Jen's got one by our bedside :D

The biggest argument for an auto as a home defense gun (as a backup to the ol' faithful pump 12ga, obviously :lol:), in my opinion, is that I've very, VERY rarely seen a commonly available revolver that can do this:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-OLLuESajI7s/TVWIE5V7-zI/AAAAAAAADeE/_Z2s0bTr1xI/s912/100_2230.JPG

or this:
http://www.suckasstheatre.com/gunpics/taclight1.jpg

A home defense weapon without a light, IMO, is asking for trouble when things go bump in the night. Target acquisition is pretty important before you shoot the cat / neighbor / kids sneaking in late at night... Just a thought.

[miata5620]

Why not a 9mm J-frame? They make 'em. Jen's got one by our bedside :D

The biggest argument for an auto as a home defense gun (as a backup to the ol' faithful pump 12ga, obviously :lol:), in my opinion, is that I've very, VERY rarely seen a commonly available revolver that can do this:

A home defense weapon without a light, IMO, is asking for trouble when things go bump in the night. Target acquisition is pretty important before you shoot the cat / neighbor / kids sneaking in late at night... Just a thought.

I agree that you do need a quality light but I also think that with a little practice it is very easy for someone to have a pistol in one hand and a flashlight in another. I have done this and was comfortable having the pistol in my right hand and the flashlight in my left using my left wrist to help support my right hand. I think it is really just what you are comfortable with. I like revolvers as a carry and for just shooting fun but my wife does not like them and doesnt feel comfortable with them( at least not the 3 she has fired).

BTW nice shotgun

[amaff]

I agree that you do need a quality light but I also think that with a little practice it is very easy for someone to have a pistol in one hand and a flashlight in another. I have done this and was comfortable having the pistol in my right hand and the flashlight in my left using my left wrist to help support my right hand.
Under stress? I like being able to flip a switch and be able to paint my target. It sort of makes a laser redundant. If the bright center of the flashlight beam is on his chest and I pull the trigger? The bullet's landing more or less in the middle of that circle. Also, the sights show up very well (even without night-sights) against the flashlight beam. I also am most comfortable shooting 2 handed (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3132/3169554128_2085ddb993.jpg), so having to switch to that single + support hold under stress is likely to result in doing something wrong / not concentrating on what I *should* be concentrating.

Is that to say you shouldn't practice off hand / 1 hand / 1 hand holding a flashlight shooting? Hell no, if you can afford it and have the time? Go nuts. But if you don't have the time or the money (see: father of infant twins) to practice all that? I'm a big fan of figuring out what works for you (or, in this case, me), and getting really friggin good at that.

I think it is really just what you are comfortable with. I like revolvers as a carry and for just shooting fun but my wife does not like them and doesnt feel comfortable with them( at least not the 3 she has fired).
Definitely, you have to be 100% comfortable with what you're shooting. Jen's a fan of revolvers (her dad collects S&W wheel guns, so she's been shooting them forever), but she likes her autos too (both of our every-day carries are autos). I like autos for carry because they're so slim and lightweight. Sure, there are lightweight wheel guns, but no matter what you have 5 or 6 chambers, which means a lot of weight.

BTW nice shotgun
I wish that were mine. I couldn't track down a picture of mine in a reasonable amount of time so I just found an 870 (which is what I've got) with a light on it haha. I don't have the flashlight-fore-end that one seems to have. I've got a mag tube extension with a picatinny rail clamp attachment for it and a TLR-3 like I have on my FNP-9.

As you may be starting to see, I'm also a big proponent of keeping different systems interchangeable. IE: If you're not a collector, you don't need a .45 and a .40 and a 9mm and a couple .38s. If you're like me and can only afford a handful of "practical" weapons, I like to keep them the same form factor. The only real exception is Jen's .380, but I'm trying to change that hahaha. Besides that exception, all of our defensive handguns are 9mm. And obviously the 12ga and a couple .22s for plinking fun. But the same principle goes for the lights on those weapons. The batteries and parts are interchangeable. They both fit on the same rail form-factor, etc etc etc.

[miata5620]

I'm a big fan of figuring out what works for you (or, in this case, me), and getting really friggin good at that.
.

I do agree you do need to figure out what works best for you because that's what your going to be the most comfortable with.

I get not having the money to be able to practice all the time I am a father of a 11 month old and he pretty much takes up most of my free money. I haven't been able to get to the range in a LONG time.

[780racer]

I like revolvers as a carry and for just shooting fun but my wife does not like them and doesn't feel comfortable with them( at least not the 3 she has fired).



^ yuck! revolvers are cool, but i prefer Auto's for carry, between the lighter side of things, and the fact that i have more than 6 rounds... but i also think the best size for a carry is a .40, since that is what most officers carry.......at least that is what my dad says around Forsyth area and what not.

[miata5620]

^ yuck! revolvers are cool, but i prefer Auto's for carry, between the lighter side of things, and the fact that i have more than 6 rounds... but i also think the best size for a carry is a .40, since that is what most officers carry.......at least that is what my dad says around Forsyth area and what not.

More rounds is a nice thing but I will trade off rounds for knowing I will not have a Jam. Personally I have never really liked .40 rounds for a personal protection round I want the biggest caliber I can carry, .357mag or .45acp are personal favorites but really it's all about what you like.

[oldgrayfrog]

There is a reason why the cops carry the flashlight in one hand and the gun in the other, and why I never mounted a flashlight on my weapon. When the light is aligned with the barrel, and you are sighting your weapon, which if you are trained to be as prepared to fire at all times, you will be, then the flashlight tells the bad guy right where to aim. When cops do a search, they hold the flashlight high away from their body. SEALs just use FLIR or nightvision, we like the dark, it's home. Particularly if it's cold and sandy, but I digress...

[miata5620]

SEALs just use FLIR or nightvision, we like the dark, it's home. Particularly if it's cold and sandy, but I digress...

Yeah what most of us call hell you guys call home.

[amaff]

More rounds is a nice thing but I will trade off rounds for knowing I will not have a Jam. Personally I have never really liked .40 rounds for a personal protection round I want the biggest caliber I can carry, .357mag or .45acp are personal favorites but really it's all about what you like.

Before we get into the my-ammo-can-beat-up-your-ammo debate, read:

10 year study on handgun-round stopping power (http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866)

Basically, once you move up to full power loads (9mm and up), stopping power turns into statistical noise. Hit the guy in the chest a couple times and he's going down. But I guess carrying less, bigger bullets makes some folks feel better ;)

[miata5620]

Before we get into the my-ammo-can-beat-up-your-ammo debate, read:

10 year study on handgun-round stopping power (http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866)

Basically, once you move up to full power loads (9mm and up), stopping power turns into statistical noise. Hit the guy in the chest a couple times and he's going down. But I guess carrying less, bigger bullets makes some folks feel better ;)

I am not saying there is anything wrong with someone using a glock 9mm with 15 rounds in the mag. vs a s&w j frame .357 mag. I just personally like the larger round which has more force/ energy behind it. It really doesnt matter 99% of the time since 3 rounds in the chest of a 9mm your just as dead as 3 rounds from a .357mag. For me it is just a preference that I like, I am not saying its better. Maybe I just like the larger calibers since the very first pistol I shot was my dads .357 mag and it is just a great memory for me.

Besides it really doesn't matter what you carry because I truly wish no one would ever have to use it to defend themselves. Lucky for most of us we will never have to be in a situation were we need to but I like to be prepared for it just in case.

[amaff]

I didn't mean to single you out, you were just the 1st one to post something about that, and it's a bit of a pet peeve of mine so I wanted to nip it in the bud before it really started.

And yeah, I sure hope that we all hope (redundant post is redundant) that none of us ever have to use it, but you never know, which is why we do it :)

[miata5620]

I didn't mean to single you out, you were just the 1st one to post something about that, and it's a bit of a pet peeve of mine so I wanted to nip it in the bud before it really started.

And yeah, I sure hope that we all hope (redundant post is redundant) that none of us ever have to use it, but you never know, which is why we do it :)

Yeah I know you weren't singling me out and I didn't take it that way. Honestly I really enjoy this thread since it is just giving every ones thoughts about home and personal defense weapons. It has turned into a interesting thread.

[scandmx5]

^ yuck! revolvers are cool, but i prefer Auto's for carry, between the lighter side of things, and the fact that i have more than 6 rounds... but i also think the best size for a carry is a .40, since that is what most officers carry.......at least that is what my dad says around Forsyth area and what not.
You think a .40 is the best for carry because your dad says so?
:facepalm:
I used to be a fan of .40's but there really isnt that much of a difference between a .40 and 9 in ballistics/penetration to give up more round capacity, less recoil, and cheap easily available ammo. The 9mm has been carried by LE and militaries around the world for decades. If it was an insufficient caliber, then they still wouldn't be in use.
then the flashlight tells the bad guy right where to aim.
^This.

[amaff]

I used to be a fan of .40's but there really isnt that much of a difference between a .40 and 9 in ballistics/penetration to give up more round capacity, less recoil, and cheap easily available ammo.

Especially when you consider the ballistics of a 9mm+P compared to a .40. You're not really giving up much of anything.

[GVfanatic]

More perps, home invaders, and would be rapest have been put down with 9mm FMJ more than any other caliber FACT!

Its really all about the placement of the round and 9mm is cheap and always in abundant supply so more people go for it. I use 9mm and its less recoil than any 38SPL J frame even though i do love the S&W Airweights. We have women and men come in and say that 38spl has more felt recoil than a 9mm auto which i have found to be true to myself as well.

Honestly a 9mm full size from Sig, Beretta, FN, and Ruger AND and a 45acp or 9mm 1911 is gonna be very managable. a 40 is gonna bite harder because it is a high pressure round and recoils harder.

If you are looking for concealed carry for a woman a 380 is fine cuz like i said earlier its all about round placement so she should learn how to use it at a range. Even a micro 9 is managable for a woman. the women in our shop have fired both the Kimber Solo and the Sig P290 and they can handle it.

If this is for home defense only i'd recommend a shotgun. Pump or Auto doesnt matter they both can make the aggresive deterring sound from the pump or the autos bolt release. Alot of people will use 12ga which is fine, but 20ga with birdshot in it is plenty for tearing up the perp and turning them into hamburger meat, and it wont tear up the wall studs and go into the next room like buckshot will

I do not suggest Glock for home defense for the simple reason that the bore line on all glocks are tilted up when you bring your glock up quick to shoot and if you're having to make your shot count its better to be on target then above unless you dont mind aiming for center mass and getting pink mist and grey matter everywhere in your home.

I would also suggest if you are going for a nightstand gun to get nightsights.

If you have kids its good to have a safe but you need to teach them that guns are very dangerous and that they should never touch a weapon under any instance unless accompanied by you under your supervision

A tactical flashlight with a disorienting strobe is a great idea. lasers on the other hand are not. they do not disorient the perp and they give away your position to them.

DO NOT SEEK A HIGHPOINT for a self defense weapon. High Point is dirt cheap for a reason. It is cheaply designed and cheaply manufactured. Yes they have a lifetime warranty but thats because nobody would buy the ugly uncomfortable to shoot things if they didnt. Generally the only people that will tell you that they enjoy a highpoint have only ever shot a highpoint and have been lucky enough not to have one fall apart on them yet.

With that being said...12ga,20ga,.410,9mm,45acp,380acp, and 38spl. are all great home/self defense calibers.

Also its very important to pick from those finding somethin that feels comfortable in your hands. The best guns to shoot always feel like an extension of yourself rather than a foreign objects so find something that has a great ergonomic feel to it.

[780racer]

You think a .40 is the best for carry because your dad says so?
:facepalm:
I used to be a fan of .40's but there really isnt that much of a difference between a .40 and 9 in ballistics/penetration to give up more round capacity, less recoil, and cheap easily available ammo. The 9mm has been carried by LE and militaries around the world for decades. If it was an insufficient caliber, then they still wouldn't be in use.



2 ****s could be given what you think about my judgment, and why i like .40's. esp. since you im sure have more experience than my father with a hand gun or any gun for that matter....... :facepalm:

get what ever caliber you want, just because 9mm are cheaper does not mean they are worse or better.

I like .40, GV likes 9mm, as do some of these other people on the forum. get what you want. Go shoot tons of the rentals at the range, and see what you like. glocks are a bit weird to hold, and i dont like the vertical frame they have, some people love them. I also dont like how glocks cannot use reloads, or some types of ammunition.

I feel any gun that is bigger than a .22 will do the job of stopping someone, just depends on what you want.

Want to add this:

First, I believe that there is much "ballistic overlap" between some of the best 9mm loads and some of the .40 loads.
However, the fact remains that the forty will throw bigger, wider bullets at speeds similar to 9mm rounds. For example, a nine will toss out at 147 gr bullet at something under a thousand feet per second while a forty will do the same with a 180 gr bullet. A standard pressure 9mm 115 gr Winchester STHP gets around 1200 ft/sec while about the same velocity can be had with a forty caliber Winchester 155 gr STHP. You get the idea. I'd guess that in just pure "power," the forty can edge out the 9mm.

That is not to say that the nine is anybody's "weak sister" as is sometimes said. With the ammo available today, I think the 9mm rates an adequate "stopper." It has enough if properly placed, but I think that's true with any of the commonly-used defensive rounds, i.e.: they'll all do it if you hit vitals and none have enough if you don't if you're counting on stopping the attacker for physical reasons rather than psychological ones.

An officer under my command was forced to shoot a guy trying to kill him. The round was a 124 gr 9mm +P+ HydraShok. It was a one-shot stop and the bad guy was dead right there. He dropped instantly from the heart shot.

Some years later, another officer was hit in the lower torso with a 180 gr .40 JHP and while he was in very, very serious condition and lost a kidney as well, he was told that he might ought to sit down right after the shooting. He was NOT disabled nor in any really apparent discomfort; that did soon change, however.

Placement is the primary determinant to stopping power. Power is certainly a component of whatever the equation is, but I just don't personally trust any 9mm, .38, .357, .40, or .45 round to do its part if I cannot do mine. Even with really good hits, many do NOT instantly cease whatever they were doing to get shot for in the first place; there is a time lag of several seconds.

[scandmx5]

2 ****s could be given what you think about my judgment, and why i like .40's. esp. since you im sure have more experience than my father with a hand gun or any gun for that matter....... :facepalm:


Get your panties out of a wad and quit sniveling. And to agree with you- 2 sh!ts could be given about your father's experience with guns. I find out things for myself instead of recommending what other people say on a matter I don't know anything about. Hell you were recommending the guy to get a Sigma for God's sake...that shows alot about your experience :lol:.
Nice job copying and pasting an article from the High Road. Be sure to include a link next time.
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-2595.html
/

[780racer]

That was uncalled for and i am very displeased with the fact that you are acting like a ***. I'm sorry that i offended you, and i recommended one of the cheapest guns that are reliable for a bed side gun.....

[miata5620]

Damn kids calm down before you two get put in time out. LOL It's a forum don't think things so serious or personal.

[amaff]

Damn kids calm down before you two get put in time out. LOL It's a forum don't think things so serious or personal.

What did I just say? :lol:

That was uncalled for
So was the blatant plagiarism...