Fortune vs VMaxx 90-97 NB

[LagunaRoadster]

Well, I'm looking at getting coil overs, I have a set of VMaxx 90-97 NB on order, but they won't be here until August. The car will mostly be driven on the street, though more so on weekends (not a daily driver) and for twisties and mountain driving.

I want to know if it's worth an extra $300 for the Fortunes....
-------------------------------
VMaxx NB
Pros:
Cheaper
FMs reputation

Cons:
No adjustable dampening
Long wait
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Fortune
Pros:
Can purchase right now, and at the group buy rate of $1000
30 way adjustability

Cons:
$300 more
Fairly new and untested
---------------------------------

Thoughts?

[metalman]

VMaxx were always 'crap' until FM started selling them.
The RSpeed guys are local, stand behind their stuff. I get the Fortunes and forget about it.
$300 isnt that much in the grand scheme of things.

[miata5620]

I tend to agree with kurt. Plus it seems like the vmaxx have mixed reviews.

[VitaminD]

...or buy someones slightly used suspension.:D
Seriously though, several people have mentioned that the v-maxx have a poor reputation.

[oldgrayfrog]

I'll tell you what, if you read the Fortune 500 reviews of four or five other platforms, and aren't convinced, or consider that Joe basically threw the first crop back at Fortune and said, "Deliver what I told you we wanted" when the first batch arrived with a dyno plot nothing like what they had agreed on, and waited another year to get this product in that frankly, if Joe didn't care about, he could have made a killing on.

Case in point Joe's car is currently inoperable. that's because he was approached by a European turbo manufacturer looking to sell kits here in the USA. They "gave" Joe a kit to try out.This kit, the manufacturer claims, a hobbyist can assemble in 6-8 hours. Well, Hector has spent over 20+ hours trying to get the damn thing to work,the downpipe is leaking sack & the intercooler will only work without AC. Joe is pissed, about the time Hector needs to remove it, on top of the hours already spent on the car, none of which anyone got billed for. Eventually the damn kit will come off, until then Joe's driving a truck getting 18mpg instead of his Miata.

One thing is certain, that Eurotrash vendor won't be making the big break into the majors at RSpeed. Could he sell a bunch? Yup, of course. All you have to do is put a little label on it saying "we strongly recommend that a qualified mechanic install this". Next time you read Modified or what ever magazine you browse at the grocery store, note how many times you see that line. Joe won't do it. He told me verbatim"If my customer can't install it in 6-8 hours, I won't sell it." That RSpeed name means something, every Chapparal wheel, all those RSpeed cold air kits? They are and will continue to be quality stuff, because if you can't do it at home, you are probably going to ask Hector to do it.

But if that's not good enough for you, you can buy my H&R coilovers when they come off my car. I'm buying a set of Fortunes myself.

[NA6R]

Rokkor's!

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

I trust Rspeed and would go with what they're selling. Especially at that price. And since they're local you can start a mob with pitch forks and torches outside their shop if they're not right!

[oldgrayfrog]

Rokkor's!

You sir are an idiot. What Jack said. Joe stands by his stuff, always has.

[LagunaRoadster]

How high can the Fotunes keep the suspension?
"Height adjustment independent of preload to allow for an extremely low ride height without sacrificing suspension travel."
This line makes it sound like it's going to slam the car, something I'm not interested in.

[Animus21]

I think that this just means that in addition to adjustable preloading, these have adjustable shock body length as well. meaning that in theory, you could get your desired stance and still cornerweight the car properly without compromising one for the other.

Feel free to correct me If I am wrong, oh experienced voices.

[NA6R]

You sir are an idiot. What Jack said. Joe stands by his stuff, always has.

hardly an Idiot.
I'm not going to publicly **** on Joe's product. If he want's my opionion he knows how to find me.

Laguna,
keep it simple.

[metalman]

How high can the Fotunes keep the suspension?
"Height adjustment independent of preload to allow for an extremely low ride height without sacrificing suspension travel."
This line makes it sound like it's going to slam the car, something I'm not interested in.

Have you seen Joes silver car the last year or two? Hardly 'slammed'.
It has had the Fortunes on it for a good while.
The thing is when offering a coil over setup one must satisfy the slammed crowd, as well as the track enthusiast, and the old man from m.net that wants a 17" 4wd ride height.

Although I can appreciate taking some ebay short lifespan crap stuff and making it work on a Lemons beater type car I am not a fan of such on my DD Miata. Therefore I wouldnt even consider junk like 'Rooker' or 'Vcrapz'. A used Koni/GC setup would be far better.
And, if you want one of those setups I'll be happy to sell you mine and go buy Fortunes from RSpeed. ;)

[FooSchnickens]

Ask mike how much he liked his Vmaxx setup on his car. :rolleyes:

Even the early prototypes we got from fortune were leaps and bounds ahead of what the Vmaxx were capable of. While the fortune setups may be "fairly new and untested" on a miata, they have been pretty popular in the Evo, s-chassis and, more recently, WRX worlds and are gaining momentum.

I honestly wouldn't touch a set of Vmaxx regardless of FM having done their voodoo magics to them. Pearls at swine and all that.

I also find it hilarious the people will put a retailer's reputation above a product's reputation, but that's not really important to the topic at hand.

[Stealth97]

If FM sells a turd, there will be people out there who swear it's gold.

[NA6R]

If FM sells a turd, there will be people out there who swear it's gold.

^THAT!!!!!

[LagunaRoadster]

I believe this is what I have decided on...

I work Mon-Wed this week, Thursday I will go to R*Speed and have a good chat about the Fortunes (I also need to pick up a set of hub rings, hopefully they are in stock!). I'd like to make sure that I will be able to have the Fortunes at a height that wont destroy my fenders, running a 15x7 10et w/ a 205/50 tire (unless someone here knows how to roll like a pro and not destroy my paint). Hopefully by Thursday they won't have sold all 10 sets that are available at the group buy discount ;)

[NA6R]

ok heres my take on these shocks.

Tein, Megan, Stance, DGR, Fortune, etc....all seem to come from the same blueprint for the body design. The top hats all appear the same or similar. IF, different vendors have the ability to revalve them to "custom" valve packages, cool. IMHO, less than 1% of the miata community as a whole will be able to tell the difference.
30 way adjustable, sounds like 29 ways to **** them up to me :shrug:

"preload" adjustment and a separate height adjustment....um, if you change the height of a corner the weight on that corner is still gonna change.....why the extra step of height adjustment?

yeah digressive valving is nice, but it ain't necessary.

[ben91]

ok heres my take on these shocks.

Tein, Megan, Stance, DGR, Fortune, etc....all seem to come from the same blueprint for the body design. The top hats all appear the same or similar. IF, different vendors have the ability to revalve them to "custom" valve packages, cool. IMHO, less than 1% of the miata community as a whole will be able to tell the difference.
30 way adjustable, sounds like 29 ways to **** them up to me :shrug:For the most part, agreed. A little bit of adjustment range is nice, but for the most part not truly necessary. I find I like my Flex full soft rear and between full soft and 3 clicks up front, depending on conditions.

"preload" adjustment and a separate height adjustment....um, if you change the height of a corner the weight on that corner is still gonna change.....why the extra step of height adjustment?Disagree. Height adjustment lets you raise/lower the car without affecting droop/bump travel. Not bouncing off the bumpstops on the highway is epic win.

[NA6R]

Disagree. Height adjustment lets you raise/lower the car without affecting droop/bump travel. Not bouncing off the bumpstops on the highway is epic win.

proper length shocks will do the same. The way height is adjusted on these. If you don't do all 4 then your jacking weight somewhere. not alot, but a bit.

[oldgrayfrog]

Height adjustment lets you raise/lower the car without affecting droop/bump travel. Not bouncing off the bumpstops on the highway is epic win.[/quote]
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^

This is what I was having a hard time expressing. What the meaning of "height adjustment independent of preload". In a lot of cheaper setups, as you "slam" you incur preload on the springs. With this setup, the prepload doesn't happen because you decide to go to 11.75 instead of 12.5 inches. If I understood my conversation with Joseph correctly, you can order springs from Fortune or Swift, and have your choice in spring length as well. If you like using 8" springs in the rear go ahead, my understanding is that Swift makes then in pretty much any length you might want to reasonably want.

Pat, I called you an idiot because of your implication through your "sell it Dave!" comment that I was somehow shilling for Fortune Auto, RSpeed or both. I am excited to see what I perceive, from having done some fairly extensive research on suspensions lately, (really exciting bedtime reading BTW), and my conversations with Joseph over the past year a very good setup for the money that would have normally only got you entry into a quality coilover company's line. Tein Mono Flex, for Tein SS money as an analogy then.

I really don't think that we are in danger of not having any of the sets left befure you get in there Laguna. I talked with Joseph on Friday, and he,Chris and Hector were all pretty exhausted. They have been very busy having done 3 engine swaps this last week, on top of this disastrous install of the turbo on Josephs car. Joseph was so tired, when I told him I was shocked after two years in development, that the Fortunes just showed up on the RSpeed site one day to ZERO fanfair. He just said to my suggestion that he show MX5ATL a little love "You want a group Buy? You set it up!" I had to have my 13 year old son put the link up, as I am computer illiterate.

As of right now, we are the only site even talking about these. There was a very hot debate going on, on Miata.net 18 months ago,, but that site doesn't seem to be the site of anything hot or meaningful lately. For now this is the only site that realizes that these have even been released.

I think it a great setup. I am going to buy them. Anyone wants my nearly new H&R coilovers please let me know. Otherwise I'll sell them on CR.net or Miataturbo.

[ben91]

proper length shocks will do the same. The way height is adjusted on these. If you don't do all 4 then your jacking weight somewhere. not alot, but a bit.I think the effects of proper droop travel will be much more noticeable than those from a little weight jacking. Besides, how many people actually corner weight their coilovers? 1/10? 1/25? 1/100?

[Stealth97]

These are a perfect match for the fortune widebody kit

http://www.modifiedplanet.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/car-photo-yellow-veilside-fortune-widebody-rx7-turbo.jpg

[LagunaRoadster]

Just picked up the fortunes. I'll let you know how they are :D

[NA6R]

can you post some detailed pics of the top hats?

[LagunaRoadster]

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a364/SIDEWYS/Project%20Marina%20Green/feceee9d.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a364/SIDEWYS/Project%20Marina%20Green/83bdb042.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a364/SIDEWYS/Project%20Marina%20Green/89053907.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a364/SIDEWYS/Project%20Marina%20Green/48cc7f13.jpg

[LagunaRoadster]

Rear installed:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a364/SIDEWYS/Project%20Marina%20Green/85199dcb.jpg

[atlnb]

Laguna, what's your pinch weld/hub to fender height? there doesn't look to be a lot of suspension travel in the rear. is the ride uncomfortable or anything of the like?