Odd starting issue......

[Doppelgänger]

So thismorning I came out to warm up the car like I normally do. Well, upon tuning the key to start, I got the typical relay click and fuel pump spool, but when I turned the car to actually start the starter did not kick on. So I took the key out and tried again. This time I heard my fan kick on (not normal). Turn key off, turn key on. This time in the all the way forward position, the radio doesn't cut out and the fan stays running as long as I hold the key forward as if i'd be turning the starter. As soon as I let the key back into the "on/running" position, the fan cuts off. I went back and fourth between just turning the key all the way forward and letting go and holding the key all the way forward. Hell, I even tapped on the starter thinking that would help. This went on for a few minutes....sometimes the fans would turn on in the "start" position, and other times it would do what it is supposed to do ...dim the radio and gauge cluster lights...but still no starter.
A few minutes later it started right up.
Ignition switch? The only reason I think not is because the fuel pump primed when I turn the key to the "on" position like normal. Also, I have a very light key set...no big heavy keychain which can cause ignition cyl. problems.

[tbone heller]

Sometimes a weak battery or poor cable connections will make a car do all kinds of crazy stuff. This is were I would start.

[nickt93]

The ignition switches in these cars are so temperamental. Mine went bad this past spring, so I picked up a replacement from Kurt and after a few weeks it started to do the same thing (I'm thinking part of the issue is that, without interior trim in my car, it is prone to collecting dust and dirt).

It probably wouldn't hurt to remove and clean it. There's a great writeup here: http://www.miata.net/garage/CleaningIgnitionSwitch.html

If you need dielectric grease, I was able to find some at O'Reilly's.

[RotorNutFD3S]

+1 to checking battery and cables. My car was acting the same way, and then it stopped working altogether. Problem? You know how the ground wire comes off the battery and is bolted to a frame piece? The factory crimp where it bolts had sheered the ground wire in half, so the ground wire had just been resting against that metal piece, somedays it would make enough of a connection to start, other days, just enough to run the accessories and that's it.
Since I highly doubt you changed anything in the Hyrda, I don't think it's anything there.
Could be a starter issue. But the only thing that confuses me is the fans running. That's usually an error mode in the ECU.

[Doppelgänger]

I'll check, but the battery hasn't been touched since i've owned the car. Once the car started, turnover was as strong as strong can be, no sign of weakness.

[Doppelgänger]

+1 to checking battery and cables. My car was acting the same way, and then it stopped working altogether. Problem? You know how the ground wire comes off the battery and is bolted to a frame piece? The factory crimp where it bolts had sheered the ground wire in half, so the ground wire had just been resting against that metal piece, somedays it would make enough of a connection to start, other days, just enough to run the accessories and that's it.
Since I highly doubt you changed anything in the Hyrda, I don't think it's anything there.
Could be a starter issue. But the only thing that confuses me is the fans running. That's usually an error mode in the ECU.


Yeah, that's what was throwing me off...the fans tuning on when the key was turned as if you turn the starter. That is NOT normal. The fans shouldn't even come on until the car is warmed up...not when starting. On a few occasions, it was like I was turning the key and starting the fans, and when i let the key fall back to the on/running position, the fans turned off. Also, when the fans would turn on, the radio wouldn't cut out like it should. Once again, 2 symptoms that I highly doubt can be attributed to a battery/cable issue.

[RotorNutFD3S]

Call FM when they open. I bet they have an answer almost immediately. It sounds so much like an ECU related issue.
And if you call them, tell them their link to Hyrda's 280 page manual is bad.

[MeFryRice]

Weird that you are having issues with your ignition this morning. I had a dream last night that I was driving the Miata and the key broke inside the ignition, clean cut and all. :(

[FE3tMX5]

I know that my car will run the fans if the ecu is pulled. So maybe it is ecu. But power/ground also sounds probably. I'd definitely go through and at least check your primary power/ground points: battery, ppf ground, power post in the main engine bay fuse box, chassis ground, alternator post...

That said - before I pulled my car off the road to do the engine swap, the ignition switch was acting up. It would do things like nothing when you turned the key, or while driving anything electrical in the gauge pod would stop working. It was off the road for almost two years and I messed with a lot of electrical, but nothing with the ignition switch, and the problem has never come back. :dunno:

[wildfire0310]

Hey sound similar with what happen to my car just the other mouth.

Check for bad grounds. My main ground on car was the problem. It was bolted and all find but for some reason, when it was unbolted and cleaned and re bolted down. It solved it.

[simontibbett]

I'd start with the battery cables and especially grounds, I have seen similar things from a bad ground.

[Doppelgänger]

Well, talked to Jeremy @ FM. Kinda stumped him too. But, like you guys, suggested that I check a couple of wires and the apms on the battery (not the volts). My problem will be, if I can reproduce the no-start issue. If I can't than there is no telling what caused it (but I sure a sh!t don't care if it never happens again). Jeremy thought the fan issue was also strange and like me, can't recall hearing the fans come on normally when starting the car. I'll try to check that later. I guess the good news is that a) I started the car several times after this happened and b) since the starter is directly connected to the battery and ignition switch, it's nearly impossible it's the ECU.

The only other time I had problems starting the car is when I tripped the immobilizer :lol: This kinda of problem/solution might be a no-brainer for some of you, but i've never had battery/ground/no-start issues with any car i've owned...so it does come as a slight surprise.

[RotorNutFD3S]

Well, the only thing I could really come up with for ECU related is the Power Overload Protection (too much starting power), but that causes all your accessories to come on to drain the power off the battery/alternator...
Hope you find it or it never happens again. If you need any help troubleshooting, let me know, I have some good tools from my MECP days that would come in handy.

[Doppelgänger]

After having this happen a few more times, and checking the grounds on the last couple, I think I found the problem. The last two times it happened, I checked the batter first..not the issue. But, I have a clutch neutral bypass switch so I don't have to use the clutch. Well, I held the key in the start position and bumped the clutch pedal and it fired right up. If it happens/works for a third time, i'll be 100% sure it's the neutral bypass switch.

[ben91]

Very odd problem mike. I'd look towards the ignition switch, but the cooling fans are activated by the hydra and not the switch. Suggest keeping your laptop in the car and doing lots of datalogging looking for any other glitches that could be related to hydra failure.

[Doppelgänger]

Confirmed this morning that it is the aftermarket neutral bypass mod.
The car was doing the same thing and I just barely bumped the clutch pedal while turning the key and it fired up. No biggie.... if it happens, i'll just bump the damn pedal now.

[RotorNutFD3S]

Why not just reach up under there and readjust the clip on the clutch switch? It might have just come loose. :) (That is, as long as it's FMs bypass clip.)

[Doppelgänger]

Probably, I simply haven't remembered to. I'll be doing a bunch of knick-knack work on the car soon and that'll be one of the things I get to.

[RotorNutFD3S]

Gotcha. Bet it's come loose. Mine did once, reached up under there and pushed it back into place, no more problems.