Our new President - Barack Obama

[MeFryRice]

As I'm sure everyone already knows, Barack Obama will be taking office on Tuesday, 20 January 2009.

How do you think he will 'change' our country? For better or worse and you must provide an explanation of your hypothesis.

**No racial comments will be tolerated in this thread**

No personal attacks for political views or opinions will be tolerated either. -RotorNut

[wonton]

I think he will do some good, you have to think, a lot of people are assuming he is gonna **** up. my thought on it is that he wont **** up on anything, especially with him being the first black man to be president. the whole country will be watching him very closely. the country's unemployment rate is at a all time high. it hasnt been this bad sence WW2!
Obama is here to help our country and i think that is something that will happen. i dont know exactly how but i do believe that he being our new president will be a good impact on the country's economy!

[simontibbett]

I think he will help for many reasons. We won't turn around and all be perfect his term, he has a lot of issues to overcome. I do think he is the right man for it though.

[RotorNutFD3S]

I agree with Sean that he's going to have a LOT of attention and focus on him. The scrutiny is probably going to be one of the things that wears him out the fastest (if you've compared his campaign pictures to his present pictures, he already looks extremely exhausted).
Anyway, as far as 'change' is concerned, I think he's already learning that this whole POTUS thing is a lot harder than it looked from the outside. I think he has a ton to learn and experience before he can really focus on all the issues he's promised to address while in office. And no, I don't expect anything overnight, but his lack of political experience leaves him at a slight disadvantage to take care of things as quickly as he may have originally thought. Time, however, will tell. I hope he does good for this country, we really need it right now, he's coming into office at a very rough time, it would be very easy to cast the straw that breaks the camel's back.

[N3v]

there's really nothing he can do to **** stuff up any worse. I think he's got it pretty easy as far as expectations go.

[ben91]

As I'm sure everyone already knows, Barack Obama will be taking office on Tuesday, 20 January 2009.

How do you think he will 'change' our country? For better or worse and you must provide an explanation of your hypothesis.

**No racial comments will be tolerated in this thread**

No personal attacks for political views or opinions will be tolerated either. -RotorNut
I think he's going to crush businesses large and small and discourage investment with oppressive tax policies. If that doesn't cost enough jobs, he's also going to raise minimum wage. You think groceries cost too much now? Meanwhile he is going to make our nation less safe from outside attack. All the while he will begin removing civil liberties.

I'm glad he declared his innagural party to be a celebration for the people. As the people are paying for it. $150 million dollars worth. Or triple what GW's and quadruple what SlickWilly's respective parties cost.

[simontibbett]

I think he's going to crush businesses large and small and discourage investment with oppressive tax policies. If that doesn't cost enough jobs, he's also going to raise minimum wage. You think groceries cost too much now? Meanwhile he is going to make our nation less safe from outside attack. All the while he will begin removing civil liberties.

I'm glad he declared his innagural party to be a celebration for the people. As the people are paying for it. $150 million dollars worth. Or triple what GW's and quadruple what SlickWilly's respective parties cost.

Give some info to back your statements.

[N3v]

hahaha at obama removing civil liberties. can you say patriot act? as i said, the state of things is already ridiculous. Also, 'oppressive tax policies' isn't really an issue. republicans have been letting rich people and big companies get away with hardly any taxes forever. it would be far less opressive to small and medium businesses if we could get tax money from other places besides small businesses themselves. Also, I don't see how higher taxes on big businesses would discourage investing.

your post reads like a really conservative drunk person rambling about how obama is gonna ruin everything.

[jester911]

I myself am a conservative and I don't drink. The top earners in this country pay most of the tax. It is a fact. Look it up.
As for Obama we don't have much to go on as far as his record. 2 years in the Senate seems to show only that he is the farthest left president yet.

Only time will tell if he will come more to the middle. His appointments for his administration seem to be more to the middle than expected except the fact that his main financial advisers are the guys that ran Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac into the ground.

Those out there that think that the president and for that matter the government as a whole will actually pull us out of the economic situation we are in are very misled.

This country's economy runs on capitalism and more government involvement only stifles that. Higher taxes don't cause people to spend more money any more than they make companies hire more people.

The economic stimulus bill they are working on now is a crock. The government does not stimulate the economy.
They only take the money out of our pocket and redistribute it. It is socialism plain and simple.

Okay I rambled enough and I didn't even drink anything.

[ben91]

hahaha at obama removing civil liberties. can you say patriot act? as i said, the state of things is already ridiculous. Also, 'oppressive tax policies' isn't really an issue. republicans have been letting rich people and big companies get away with hardly any taxes forever. it would be far less opressive to small and medium businesses if we could get tax money from other places besides small businesses themselves. Also, I don't see how higher taxes on big businesses would discourage investing.

your post reads like a really conservative drunk person rambling about how obama is gonna ruin everything.Your post reads like a really high college student rambling on about how "hemp" is going to save everything.

I'd like to offer further response, but you've already shown me that you're not capable of digesting anything I type, so I will not waste my time. So let's raise capital gains, let's tax small businesses and their owners more heavily, let's close Gitmo and let its detainees into our country, let's no longer hunt Bin Laden, let's allow Palistine to wipe out Israel, and let's no longer own any semi-automatic weapons. You can go on with your fairy tale life and enjoy your little $500 stimulus check. Meanwhile, hope the job hunt goes well.

[ben91]

The economic stimulus bill they are working on now is a crock. The government does not stimulate the economy.
They only take the money out of our pocket and redistribute it. It is socialism plain and simple.
You can not cure cancer with more cancer. Nor can you give tax cuts to people who do not pay taxes. Giving checks to people who do not pay taxes is welfare pure and simple.

[jester911]

I am with you Ben.

[RotorNutFD3S]

Easy guys... I see this starting down the wrong path...

[N3v]

we are never going to find bin laden. hell, he could already be dead.

[BFH miata]

I think he has a ton to learn and experience before he can really focus on all the issues he's promised to address while in office.

And this is what scares the crap out of me! I want a president who is ready to go, not a young teething senator. Who wants to bet on how many trillions he tacks on to the deficit?

Nor can you give tax cuts to people who do not pay taxes.

Amen!

Is it 2012 yet?!

[simontibbett]

Well half of your Bin Laden problems can be related to your ex dumb **** of a human...Mr. Bush. He didn't do too well with that.

Nobody here that I read has said Obama himself his term can turn this crap America to a beautiful rich strong economy. I know people say that, but even I know that's not true.

[wonton]

if you really think about the whole political thing, Obama really has nothing to do with the country or the economy! Obama and every other president have all been really nothing more than public figures, someone for the whole country to look at. all decisions have to pass through congress and have to be voted on (checks and balances) pure and simple Obama is a public figure and speaker! i know the way i have said all this seems like presidents dont do anything, thats not what im saying! thats just one thing people forget when they blame a president for something going wrong!

[matredd]

This is a racial comment but not racist. I'm excited to see the black community see that they do have the opportunities to reach something as high as being the leader of the most powerful country in the world. I've seen that this has been very encouraging to many and I hope it brings new light to those who have felt unable in the past.

Other than that... i'm really not too optimistic about the next presidency. Yes, unemployment is high right now but nowhere near the percentages European countries with similar social policies to what Obama is suggesting.

The Reagan tax cuts are a perfect example that reducing excessive tax rates stimulates growth, reduces tax avoidance, and can increase the amount and share of tax payments generated by the rich.
Unfortunately, the govt proved it can spend any surplus of money faster than it comes in.

Who knows... we'll see what happens. I hope for the best.

[metalman]

As far as diminishing civil liberties, GW Bush has likely butchered American civil liberty more then any president in history. He is a disgrace to what my forefathers died for IMHO. The patriot act is but one example.

That being said, I dont think either Obama/Dems or McCain/GOP had/have the 'answers'. In my opinion there is not really that much difference in the two parties 'product' anymore. Its also my opinion that America will continue to slide downhill from "Superpower" status. Economically we are really just hanging on by a thread...if that...and in debt and dependant on those who are actually enemies of our way of life. Socially we have slid downward, especially since the Regan era where greed really grasped our entire society like a forest fire...more then previously....although it started before that.

I dont see much good coming for the good ole USA...temporary things perhaps, but not in the longer term. I think America will see horrible times in the future, I am just not prepared to say exactly when.

In other words, I dont think electing Obama will really acomplish much of anything....its pretty much like pissing in the ocean...it wont change the sea level.

Hows that for feeling positive?? :lol:

Now, to cheer things up can we argue about religion for awhile?? :lol:

[wildfire0310]

This is a racial comment but not racist. I'm excited to see the black community see that they do have the opportunities to reach something as high as being the leader of the most powerful country in the world. I've seen that this has been very encouraging to many and I hope it brings new light to those who have felt unable in the past.


You know you have a point but at the same time something that has been bugging me. Who cares that he is black. By celebrating that someone of a set race, religion etc got somewhere and rejoicing about how someone of X got there. All it does is start to feed the idea that someone only got there because of there race, religion etc. The more people talk about how get it is that someone of a non white skin tone made it to office the more people will wonder if he only got voted in cause he was black not because of his policies.



Also to feed for the topic:

Only a few things I can see happening while Obama is in office.
-because all three check systems are of the same party, some really f**ked up laws will get pass, causing more problems
-Obama worried about getting **** of f**king up won't do much and we stay the same for 4 years
- one plus is that people outside the US may now have a different view of Americans since we have someone in office who is not the norm.

[FlipKing]

A. I am not sure the country is ready for him. I AM NOT being racial(I have a half black little sister) but if history is any measure, I think he will probably not live out his term. I hope I am wrong, but look at every president that is differnt ends up dead.....

B. Im worried about how much he will cut the military and raise taxes, that scares me. Hopfully he will atleast keep gas down....


Food for thought: If the government dispersed all the money that it paid out in bail outs to the american people, each american would have gotten 200k. Hows that for an economic stimulous plan?

[wonton]

im moving to Australia!

[simontibbett]

A. I am not sure the country is ready for him. I AM NOT being racial(I have a half black little sister) but if history is any measure, I think he will probably not live out his term. I hope I am wrong, but look at every president that is differnt ends up dead.....

B. Im worried about how much he will cut the military and raise taxes, that scares me. Hopfully he will atleast keep gas down....


Food for thought: If the government dispersed all the money that it paid out in bail outs to the american people, each american would have gotten 200k. Hows that for an economic stimulous plan?

Wow...now I am pissed. I could have gotten another car.

[Roadster]

I myself am a conservative and I don't drink. The top earners in this country pay most of the tax. It is a fact. Look it up.
As for Obama we don't have much to go on as far as his record. 2 years in the Senate seems to show only that he is the farthest left president yet.

Only time will tell if he will come more to the middle. His appointments for his administration seem to be more to the middle than expected except the fact that his main financial advisers are the guys that ran Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac into the ground.

Those out there that think that the president and for that matter the government as a whole will actually pull us out of the economic situation we are in are very misled.

This country's economy runs on capitalism and more government involvement only stifles that. Higher taxes don't cause people to spend more money any more than they make companies hire more people.

The economic stimulus bill they are working on now is a crock. The government does not stimulate the economy.
They only take the money out of our pocket and redistribute it. It is socialism plain and simple.

Okay I rambled enough and I didn't even drink anything.


You said everything for me. Maybe we'll have a shot at FairTax four years from now.

[metalman]

Those out there that think that the president and for that matter the government as a whole will actually pull us out of the economic situation we are in are very misled.

This country's economy runs on capitalism and more government involvement only stifles that. Higher taxes don't cause people to spend more money any more than they make companies hire more people.

The economic stimulus bill they are working on now is a crock. The government does not stimulate the economy.
They only take the money out of our pocket and redistribute it. It is socialism plain and
simple.



I agree with these statements for sure.

I would also compare the stimulus package to the security 'package' we got from Bush.
Its more about perception (or misperception really) then anything.

[RotorNutFD3S]

Only a few things I can see happening while Obama is in office.
-because all three check systems are of the same party, some really f**ked up laws will get pass, causing more problems

Well, they have the majority, but not enough to be filibuster proof, which I think is a good thing. One party having all the control is not good, although it seems to not matter anymore so much as to what party they belong to as to how much money they're getting under the table to pass laws that will never really affect them in their lifetime.

[ben91]

Wow...now I am pissed. I could have gotten another car.
let's see pics of your cars!!

[simontibbett]

let's see pics of your cars!!

Which one?

[RotorNutFD3S]

Start another thread for them if you post them. Stay on topic in here.

[matredd]

You know you have a point but at the same time something that has been bugging me. Who cares that he is black. By celebrating that someone of a set race, religion etc got somewhere and rejoicing about how someone of X got there. All it does is start to feed the idea that someone only got there because of there race, religion etc. The more people talk about how get it is that someone of a non white skin tone made it to office the more people will wonder if he only got voted in cause he was black not because of his policies.





Def some truth there. Him being black can feed a lot of ideas. I've just seen some really hopeful attitudes as a result of him being elected. I hope this will help diminish the race issue for the future.

Starting in middle school I mark all races or none on any test that required me to tell. Stupid question. Only makes the problem worse.

[metalman]

I hope this will help diminish the race issue for the future.

That might be nice but I dont think it will.
I have noticed that those who cry the loudest about racism
harbor and protect it in their hearts and communities. ;)

But, thats another subject.

[JennB]

I'm glad he declared his innagural party to be a celebration for the people. As the people are paying for it. $150 million dollars worth. Or triple what GW's and quadruple what SlickWilly's respective parties cost.

Innagural balls and parties are paid for by private, voluntary donations. The taxpayers pay for security and the actual swearing in, just like with every other president.

[Doppelgänger]

I don't care that taxes could possibly go up. Not like it will break my bank...and if it breaks you bank, you have bigger issues that need to be addresses...financially. Where else is the Obama adminstration going to get the money for the fluckups of the past 8 years of Republican spending and bailouts? It's not going to appear out of thin air.....

Ignorant people (ignant for some) make Obama's skin color an issue.

I am also quite honestly sick and tired of people *****ing about giving money to those who "don't pay tax". Do many of you realize that this covers pretty much all part-time employees...like retired citizens who work part time..or college students. Yes, they pay out of their paycheck, but they get it back...essentially, they don't pay taxes when all is said and done. So why shouldn't these kinda of people get some extra help? It's not like the government is just going to throw a blind blanket over everyone "not paying taxes" to just hand them a check, there will be stipulations.

I could go on and on and on.. but it's damn time for bed.

[Oblio]

I think he's going to crush businesses large and small and discourage investment with oppressive tax policies. If that doesn't cost enough jobs, he's also going to raise minimum wage. You think groceries cost too much now? Meanwhile he is going to make our nation less safe from outside attack. All the while he will begin removing civil liberties.

I'm glad he declared his innagural party to be a celebration for the people. As the people are paying for it. $150 million dollars worth. Or triple what GW's and quadruple what SlickWilly's respective parties cost.
there are too many things for me to remark on for the moment but lets start with the last.
This is a historic moment for this nation that MANY people would like to attend. TAX paying citizens.
As for civil liberties, W as removed more of them than any president I can remember.

[lance]

I think he will do some good, you have to think, a lot of people are assuming he is gonna **** up. my thought on it is that he wont **** up on anything, especially with him being the first black man to be president. the whole country will be watching him very closely. the country's unemployment rate is at a all time high. it hasnt been this bad sence WW2!
Obama is here to help our country and i think that is something that will happen. i dont know exactly how but i do believe that he being our new president will be a good impact on the country's economy!

Facts are always good. The unemployement rate was higher as recently as 1993, not WW2.
I believe everyone, Republican or Democrat has to support this man to get us back on track.
My only fears are his stands on National security and the class warfare of raising the tax burden on the successful to pay for those that make poor decisions.

[JennB]

My only fears are his stands on National security and the class warfare of raising the tax burden on the successful to pay for those that make poor decisions.

Obama's proposed tax plan (which of course is just a proposal, it's not law, it will have to go through Congress) would cut taxes for everyone making less than $225,000. So everyone who makes less than that makes bad decisions? I think I've done pretty well for myself and if his plan passes, I'll see a 4 digit decrease in my tax liability. The people who get the most are those making about $40K or less. I think a pretty good chunk of the population falls in there and not a bunch of lowlifes, but good hardworking people.

BTW, I'm not saying I support his tax plan, just pointing out the facts. I actually would make quite a few changes to the plan myself but I'm not the President, just an Accountant.

[simontibbett]

I must say Jenn and Mike are leading this discussion, good points.

[nickt93]

But enough about all of this tax structure, unemployment rate, and fiscal policy conversation. Let's get to the reeeeeeal issue: will Barack Obama make Miatas illegal?

[lance]

But enough about all of this tax structure, unemployment rate, and fiscal policy conversation. Let's get to the reeeeeeal issue: will Barack Obama make Miatas illegal?

No, but his environmental person may take a run at it.

[simontibbett]

Why would they make Miatas illegal? lol. Mine runs on E85.

[lance]

Obama's proposed tax plan (which of course is just a proposal, it's not law, it will have to go through Congress) would cut taxes for everyone making less than $225,000. So everyone who makes less than that makes bad decisions? I think I've done pretty well for myself and if his plan passes, I'll see a 4 digit decrease in my tax liability. The people who get the most are those making about $40K or less. I think a pretty good chunk of the population falls in there and not a bunch of lowlifes, but good hardworking people.

BTW, I'm not saying I support his tax plan, just pointing out the facts. I actually would make quite a few changes to the plan myself but I'm not the President, just an Accountant.

The people I am referring to are not the the "hard working middle" class. The people I am talking about are the professional welfare recipiants.

I also get a kick out of the media and government reference to the "working families". Bt their definition, if you make over $225K a year family income, you no longer fit into the "working family" definition. You are "rich" and should be saddled with the bulk of the tax bill. My wife and I combined exceed this limit. We both put in 50-60 hrs a week each working, support aging parents and a disabled sister as well as helping out our kids.

Since we exceed the magic number, we are no longer a "working family" just a target for increased taxes.

I would really like to see the fair tax implement.

[JennB]

Of course there is a problem with professional welfare recipients but you cannot assume that everyone on welfare is a lazy bum. As of 2005, about 2,000,000 people were on welfare. You have to remember that this includes elderly, people with mental disabilities and people who are physically disabled. Yes, there are people in that two million that abuse the system but not all. Also, statistics show that over half of welfare recipients are off the program within two years. Now take the other half and subtract all of the elderly and disabled and it's not like we have millions of people just living off of the government for no reason. There will always be people who abuse a program and that is what program reform is for. We do our best to keep those people out of the program while still helping those who truly need support. But you cannot assume that everyone is lazy and worthless because they ask for help. I'm all for more welfare reform, it's definitely been completely overhauled over the last 15 years but more can always be done to modernize, streamline and cut costs.

You certainly cannot say that professional welfare recipients make up a huge chunk of the people who will receive a tax break under Obama's proposed plan. They would make up a very small fraction considering that the majority of people in this country would receive a tax break.

[Doppelgänger]

let's tax small businesses and their owners more heavily, let's close Gitmo and let its detainees into our country, let's no longer hunt Bin Laden, let's allow Palistine to wipe out Israel, and let's no longer own any semi-automatic weapons. You can go on with your fairy tale life and enjoy your little $500 stimulus check. Meanwhile, hope the job hunt goes well.
Speaking of protecting our borders, in wich case, they're not going to just bring everyone from Gitmo to the US and turn them loose... that's an ignorant statement if i've ever hear one. But what about stuff like the 2 US Border Agents that shot (in the butt, a very non-fatal shot at that) the illegal Mexican who had a van full of drugs. Well, the USBP agents are both serving 12 and 14 years in fed. pen. for this, meanwhile the Mexican that got shot is suing for $5,000,000 and instant citizenship. Bush was asked why he didn't involved and he replied "because he didn't want to hurt ongoing US-Mexico relations". Yeah, good job Bush. Our GOVERNMENT agents do their jobs and end up in prison for meerly giving an illegal drug smuggler a flesh wound.
Yet, Bush granted pardons to 14 people and commuted the sentences of 2 others. The crimes of those that Bush pardoned included dealing drugs, evading taxes, killing bald eagles or mishandling hazardous waste.

If you care to read more... http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,244193,00.html


Also, if you read the news lately, Isreal is by no means being threatened by Palestinians. But in all honesty, they have been fighting over there before the US was a figment in anyones imagination. I know it's harsh, but stick our nose in their business is NOT something we need to do, it shouldn't even be a subject for us. Was there any help from other countries when we had out own civil war? No. Only more problems come from getting involved.

And for Obama wanting to "take away our guns", have you read up on McCains past gun policies that included wanting to close down guns shows completely? He recently 'flip flopped' to pro gun wannabe for political gain in the run for office. McCain went even as far as to put anti-gun ads in movie theaters preceeding Pearl Harbor. Honestly, there isn't much need to have assault rifles anyway. "But the collectors have a right" some will say, well, too bad. I like growing plants and have a garden, but i'm not allowed to grow poppy flowers (which are quite beautiful by the way) because I *could* use them to make heroin. Blame the thugs and idiots for having such distrust in "potential" issues.
http://www.goapvf.org/mccain.htm

enjoy you little $500 stimulus check
Actually, Obama's "new" plan actually says "The stimulus plan (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/u/united_states_economy/economic_stimulus/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier), which House Democrats have called the “American Recovery and Reinvestment Bill of 2009,” is the centerpiece of Mr. Obama’s early agenda, and it also seeks to make good on some of his signature campaign promises, including an income tax cut for most Americans earning less than $200,000 a year.Under the plan, individuals would receive up to $500 and families up to $1,000 through a cut in payroll taxes on the first $8,100 in income. The money would be delivered through paychecks as a reduction in Social Security (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/s/social_security_us/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) withholdings, and is intended to bolster consumer spending by giving a small lift to household pocketbooks. "

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/16/business/economy/16webstimulus.html

So no, it's not going to be like Bush's sh!tty give-everyone-a-check plan..which, by the way, spent tes of millions of dollars in resource just to send you a letter telling you that a check was on the way...a rear waste of tax money.


Another fun fact. Did you know you Homeland Security agency is spending money and time on such silly things like impounding imported car? Now tell me, W T F does that have to do with the reason they were even put into existance? Oh it can go on all day...

And with this, by no means am I saying I agree with everything Obama wants to do, but I really think it's important to point out all the other issues of other political figures and departments and all of the insane things they do.

[metalman]

"The government cannot give to anyone anything that it does not first take from someone else”

The problem with tax cuts is that without seriously cutting/eliminating spending the math wont work. At this point even normal spending cuts likely wont be enough. Plus...
I dont see anyone at the forefront of cutting SPENDING. On the contrary, we have just added a gajillion dollars to an already overwhelming national debt. Printing more money and handing it to the "working class" or any group will only prolong the agony and make things worse in the long run. It would only help to lull the people into a false perception that everything will be okay. The bills MUST be paid, and the only way to do that is CUT spending and COLLECT taxes. Thats the ugly truth of it all. My .02.

[Doppelgänger]

The bills MUST be paid, and the only way to do that is CUT spending and COLLECT taxes. Thats the ugly truth of it all. My .02.

And that's the bottom line.

[JennB]

Just because we're pointing out the facts, doesn't mean we agree with the policies.

Personally, I think taxes should stay where they are right now and we need to seriously work on our spending. You cannot get out of debt by taking in less money unless you make a SERIOUS reduction in costs.


It's certainly not how I would do it but hey, I hope it helps. I hope that something works and we are in better shape soon.

[metalman]

Personally, I think taxes should stay where they are right now and we need to seriously work on our spending. You cannot get out of debt by taking in less money unless you make a SERIOUS reduction in costs.

I agree. Cutting spending in BIG ways should be the FIRST order of business.

I fear that wont really happen however. It will get cut in one area...and then added in another. Typically presidents and elected officials are motivated by those who gave the $$ to get them elected, and by public outcry. Those who give the $$ usually want something in return, to fatten their own wallets through laws/policies and the public clamors for more $, services and benefits, whether in tax cuts or health care or whatever...and at the end of the day I see spending cuts really not happening....just spending shifts. That is my fear.

[matredd]

And that's the bottom line.

Again, history has shown more taxes are collected (total amt.) when there are cuts as the economy is stimulated. The govt is just able to increase deficits by spending it more quickly than it comes in.

We may agree. I may have just misunderstood.

[RotorNutFD3S]

Also, if you read the news lately, Isreal is by no means being threatened by Palestinians. But in all honesty, they have been fighting over there before the US was a figment in anyones imagination. I know it's harsh, but stick our nose in their business is NOT something we need to do, it shouldn't even be a subject for us. Was there any help from other countries when we had out own civil war? No. Only more problems come from getting involved.

Actually, we've been allies with Israel since before WWII. Since then, all we've done is help them when they have asked for it.

And during the Civil War, while they were officially neutral, Britain built ships for the Confederacy, and then later built and operated blockade runners, neither of which affected the outcome of the war, but there was involvement.

The fact of the matter concerning involvement is that everyone is considering what they have to gain or lose from whatever situation is occuring while usually "officially" remaining out of it.

[JennB]

Again, history has shown more taxes are collected (total amt.) when there are cuts as the economy is stimulated.


To an extent.... marginal tax rates were actually higher during the Clinton administration when we had a balanced budget. Bush has made quite a few tax cuts but economy has certainly not been stimulated. I'm just speaking of personal income taxes.

I cannot speak for past administrations and tax cuts from personal experience though. I've only been an accountant through the last two.

[jesseealexander]

jenn and mike FTW. without you guys this thread would be full of ignorant people.

im really tired of the race thing being an issue. he's what, like 6% black? i guess that means im black too. WOO. honestly, a person is a person, regardless of color and race. theres idiots of all the colors of the rainbow, and most of them are the ones who keep the race issue an going topic.

[jester911]

I see. So those that are not in agreement are ignorant.

Brilliant.

[JennB]

jenn and mike FTW. without you guys this thread would be full of ignorant people.



I wouldn't go that far. Difference of opinions does not equal ignorant. Without differing views, we would have no checks and balances to keep people in line. We wouldn't have much to talk about either.

For what it's worth, I was a poli sci minor in college, I like to talk politics as long as there is no name calling, anger and people actually have good points to back up their opinions. What drives me crazy is people who say things like "I voted for Bush 'cause he seems like a nice guy" or "I voted for McCain because Palin is hot" or "I voted for Obama because he's black". That's ignorance and does not constitute a political opinion to me.

[Doppelgänger]

Actually, we've been allies with Israel since before WWII. Since then, all we've done is help them when they have asked for it.

And during the Civil War, while they were officially neutral, Britain built ships for the Confederacy, and then later built and operated blockade runners, neither of which affected the outcome of the war, but there was involvement.


IRRC the south bought ships from Britan, not Britan 'giving' them to the Confederacy. Either way Lincoln threatened war if any country directly intervened. How many other civil wars have been settled without foreign help? Most. But this is kinda of off point. But, when all is said and done, they've still been fighting for a very long time.

[lance]

Just because we're pointing out the facts, doesn't mean we agree with the policies.

Personally, I think taxes should stay where they are right now and we need to seriously work on our spending. You cannot get out of debt by taking in less money unless you make a SERIOUS reduction in costs.


It's certainly not how I would do it but hey, I hope it helps. I hope that something works and we are in better shape soon.

Thumbs up on the spending cuts. President should have a line item veto so he can cut some of the pork out of the bills that are thrown in front of him.

[JennB]

Agreed. Special interests and pork have added millions to bills that started off with good intentions. It's nothing short of ridiculous what Congress hides in the hundreds of pages of a bill.

[RotorNutFD3S]

jenn and mike FTW. without you guys this thread would be full of ignorant people.

Go back and reread the red text in the first post of this thread.
Just for warning, comments like this will get you blocked from the Serious Discussions section.

IRRC the south bought ships from Britan, not Britan 'giving' them to the Confederacy. Either way Lincoln threatened war if any country directly intervened. How many other civil wars have been settled without foreign help? Most. But this is kinda of off point. But, when all is said and done, they've still been fighting for a very long time.

Right, they weren't given. But them building the ships was considered assistance by many and almost started a war between the US and Britain. Intervention and assistance wasn't in question as much as other countries were not to recognize the Confederacy as it's own nation. And then there was the whole hostage thing and Britain had 130,000 troops ready in Canada to storm NY. My whole point by stating that is while there is not official foreign help in certain conflicts, there's a LOT more going on behind the scenes because other countries may have a lot to gain or lose from the fighting and who wins and who loses. We're not the only nation to "stick our noses in someone else's business", but we are the most publicized nation for doing so.

[jester911]

I am with you on spending. It has gotten out of control no matter what side of the aisle your on. The should only be able to add spending if they cut an equal amount or more somewhere else.

Unfortunately with all the bailouts coming down it will get much worse before it gets better I am afraid.

[lance]

Of course there is a problem with professional welfare recipients but you cannot assume that everyone on welfare is a lazy bum. As of 2005, about 2,000,000 people were on welfare. You have to remember that this includes elderly, people with mental disabilities and people who are physically disabled. Yes, there are people in that two million that abuse the system but not all. Also, statistics show that over half of welfare recipients are off the program within two years. Now take the other half and subtract all of the elderly and disabled and it's not like we have millions of people just living off of the government for no reason. There will always be people who abuse a program and that is what program reform is for. We do our best to keep those people out of the program while still helping those who truly need support. But you cannot assume that everyone is lazy and worthless because they ask for help. I'm all for more welfare reform, it's definitely been completely overhauled over the last 15 years but more can always be done to modernize, streamline and cut costs.

You certainly cannot say that professional welfare recipients make up a huge chunk of the people who will receive a tax break under Obama's proposed plan. They would make up a very small fraction considering that the majority of people in this country would receive a tax break.

Don't recall saying all in regard to any category.
We both agree that welfare reform is needed. I would be a big proponent of workfare, provide jobs and training to help able people to get on their feet. If they decide they don't want to take advantage of that type of opportunity they get dooodley squat ( a currency of little value)

Of course it is easy for us to armchair quarterback, cause we don't have the job that the president has (thank god)

[metalman]

IRRC the south bought ships from Britan, not Britan 'giving' them to the Confederacy. Either way Lincoln threatened war if any country directly intervened.

Which is perhaps one reason he was a devout protestant.,,and wanted to deport certain factions of the catholic church from America. The vatican/papacy not only politically supported the confederacy but financially as well, of course playing both sides as typical. If you read papal approved writings from the nineteenth century (which I have) you will find the tone to be overwhelmingly anti American. Interestingly enough when the conspirators who killed Lincoln were hanged there was one missing...who escaped. And where was he hanging out?? You guessed it...at the vatican. ;)


Ooops...sorry...thats not even the topic here. :lol: Many years of being a library geek took over. I apologize. hehehe

[metalman]

I would be a big proponent of workfare, provide jobs and training to help able people to get on their feet. If they decide they don't want to take advantage of that type of opportunity they get dooodley squat ( a currency of little value)



Indeed. Welfare programs should require WORK to recieve $$. Anything less is not really helping folks...just enabling them.

[MeFryRice]

I used to not like History but I'm finding it more and more interesting as I get older.

[metalman]

I used to not like History but I'm finding it more and more interesting as I get older.

I had the most interesting history teacher possible as a kid. He was a WW1 vet with a vast knowledge of history, having lived a bunch of it, plus he was a noted story teller. The stories he told illustrating past events and the his talent for doing so brought history alive!
Very few have this ability.

[ben91]

Speaking of protecting our borders, in wich case, they're not going to just bring everyone from Gitmo to the US and turn them loose... that's an ignorant statement if i've ever hear one. But what about stuff like the 2 US Border Agents that shot (in the butt, a very non-fatal shot at that) the illegal Mexican who had a van full of drugs. Well, the USBP agents are both serving 12 and 14 years in fed. pen. for this, meanwhile the Mexican that got shot is suing for $5,000,000 and instant citizenship. Bush was asked why he didn't involved and he replied "because he didn't want to hurt ongoing US-Mexico relations". Yeah, good job Bush. Our GOVERNMENT agents do their jobs and end up in prison for meerly giving an illegal drug smuggler a flesh wound.
Yet, Bush granted pardons to 14 people and commuted the sentences of 2 others. The crimes of those that Bush pardoned included dealing drugs, evading taxes, killing bald eagles or mishandling hazardous waste.

If you care to read more... http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,244193,00.html


Also, if you read the news lately, Isreal is by no means being threatened by Palestinians. But in all honesty, they have been fighting over there before the US was a figment in anyones imagination. I know it's harsh, but stick our nose in their business is NOT something we need to do, it shouldn't even be a subject for us. Was there any help from other countries when we had out own civil war? No. Only more problems come from getting involved.

And for Obama wanting to "take away our guns", have you read up on McCains past gun policies that included wanting to close down guns shows completely? He recently 'flip flopped' to pro gun wannabe for political gain in the run for office. McCain went even as far as to put anti-gun ads in movie theaters preceeding Pearl Harbor. Honestly, there isn't much need to have assault rifles anyway. "But the collectors have a right" some will say, well, too bad. I like growing plants and have a garden, but i'm not allowed to grow poppy flowers (which are quite beautiful by the way) because I *could* use them to make heroin. Blame the thugs and idiots for having such distrust in "potential" issues.
http://www.goapvf.org/mccain.htm


Actually, Obama's "new" plan actually says "The stimulus plan (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/u/united_states_economy/economic_stimulus/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier), which House Democrats have called the “American Recovery and Reinvestment Bill of 2009,” is the centerpiece of Mr. Obama’s early agenda, and it also seeks to make good on some of his signature campaign promises, including an income tax cut for most Americans earning less than $200,000 a year.Under the plan, individuals would receive up to $500 and families up to $1,000 through a cut in payroll taxes on the first $8,100 in income. The money would be delivered through paychecks as a reduction in Social Security (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/s/social_security_us/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) withholdings, and is intended to bolster consumer spending by giving a small lift to household pocketbooks. "

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/16/business/economy/16webstimulus.html

So no, it's not going to be like Bush's sh!tty give-everyone-a-check plan..which, by the way, spent tes of millions of dollars in resource just to send you a letter telling you that a check was on the way...a rear waste of tax money.


Another fun fact. Did you know you Homeland Security agency is spending money and time on such silly things like impounding imported car? Now tell me, W T F does that have to do with the reason they were even put into existance? Oh it can go on all day...

And with this, by no means am I saying I agree with everything Obama wants to do, but I really think it's important to point out all the other issues of other political figures and departments and all of the insane things they do.

Removing Gitmo is a first action in weakening our sovereignty. Why remove an asset that could help prevent attack on our country? Why tell extremists that we will not do whatever it takes to defend ourselves? Why allow Gitmo's detainees access to US prisons where they have more rights and subsequent legal expenses? Note I said nothing about 'letting them roam free'.
Remember that we did not start the war against us; we are reacting to the war brought to our doorstep. And now BHO has stated that it's not necessary to kill Osama BinLaden. But don't believe me when I say that BHO will weaken our defenses; instead I'd like you to ask your boy Joe Biden.

The story about the border agents, while sad, was simply a reason for you to spew Bush hatred. Why not discuss how Bush is the primary responsible party for eradicating AIDS in Africa? Or how he decided to give up golf (which he loves) for as long as he is POTUS and has troops in a theater of operations. Anyway, there has to be more to the story if the agents were charged. A clean shoot is a clean shoot.

Want to talk about presidential pardons? Why don't you google who SlickWilly pardoned as he was leaving office.

How could you not think that Palestine is not a threat to Isreal? It's their stated mission is to kill every single person in Isreal.

Have you read upon Barack's own quotes, explicitly stating that he wishes to ban all semi-automatic weapons? Note I did not say assault weapons. BHO will eventually push anti-weapon legislation. And for what it's worth, Biden was the co-writer of the AWB.

You think it's a better plan to not accept SS withholdings instead of sending out checks? The SS system is already on the verge of colapse. How can you not think that it's an insane idea to not contribute but continually withdraw? I don't know about your bank account, but mine certainly does not work like that.

History has proven time and time again that the economy grows when taxes are lowered and contracts when taxes are raised. History has also shown that the government collects more revenue when capital gains are lower and less revenue when the tax is heavy. Furthermore, BHO's proposed tax increases the types of people and companies that provide the bulk of employment in the country. How do you think empoyers are going to react to the increased burdens; you don't think they'll simply eat the expense do you? They certainly will not, and will be cutting wages and furlowing and cutting back on employees.

Then we can talk about this 'windfall profits' tax on oil companies. True, oil companies bring in a lot of revenue. But it takes a lot of revenue to continually expand and develop methods of retrieving oil in an environmentally friendly manner. But don't go through the trouble of learning how a business model works. Instead, I want you to acknowledge who actually makes these windfall profits: the shareholders of the companies. Who are the shareholders? Me, you, and pretty much anyone who has a 401K plan. Who makes the money? Me, you, and pretty much anyone who has a 401k plan. If the oil companies are taxed, do you think they'll simply eat it, or do you think they'll pass it on to their consumers in the forms of higher fuel prices and lowered dividends?

Take it a step further and you'll realize that it's completely retarded to tax companies at all. COMPANIES DO NOT PAY TAXES! The revenues are simply collected and paid by their customers! Other countries get it, and have very low corporate taxes. That's why businesses continue to move their operations overseas, employing people of other nations instead of ours. Don't you think it's a better idea to not tax corporations to incentivise them to return back to our country and employ our countrymen? Meanwhile the cost of goods and services will decrease, not just because that the taxes don't have to be collected, but also accountants and attorneys don't have to be involved in the tax revenue dispersement process.

Why not take a look at what Jimmy Carter's policies did for the economy. 25% interest rate on your mortgage sound good to you? BHO's policies are more extreme.

But hey, let's just spread the wealth. After all, the concept has worked so well for every other nation that's ever tried it.
Anyway, I'm already bored with this.
:facepalm:

[N3v]

I used to live in europe, and they 'spread the wealth.' that means they tax **** a lot, which is why their gas is so expensive, and finland has a 22.5% sales tax. yes. twenty-two point five. Thats not really my point though. Their tax brackets for income go as high as 70% if you make enough (that'd be like a 5+ mil a year person though) Seems steep, but its a small price to pay for having oh, i dunno, a stable infrastructure, great schools, and public transportation worth a ****?

Nobody seems to realize that america is the only place with their head still up their ***. Rebublicans are stupid to say they want to move out of the country when obama is president, because NOWHERE is less liberal than the united states. well, nowhere that doesn't prohibit womens' education and stone people to death.

[Doppelgänger]

Ben, the condesending tone is not appreciated.

It's obvious that you are stuck in one mindset about this topic and countering any of your statements are only going to go in circles.

And boo flucking hoo, Bush gave up golf. What a crock. I'd hope he would have to give up something as such to do things like.. i dunno... run this country[into the ground]. Step back and look at the big picture about the border patrol agents, it's NOT just about Bush, it's the whole situation.

Please bring some credible sources for some of you facts.... like Bush "is the primary responsible party for eradicating AIDS in Africa" (:lol:), or some concrete evidence.

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm:

Furthermore, BHO's proposed tax increases the types of people and companies that provide the bulk of employment in the country. How do you think empoyers are going to react to the increased burdens; you don't think they'll simply eat the expense do you? They certainly will not, and will be cutting wages and furlowing and cutting back on employees.


followed by...

Take it a step further and you'll realize that it's completely retarded to tax companies at all. COMPANIES DO NOT PAY TAXES! The revenues are simply collected and paid by their customers!

Are you suffering from alzheimers or do you just not know the definition of the word "contradiction"? Please explain to me in depth how companies don't pay taxes. Also, please give some examples of where Obama's administration is going to source funding to START fixing the over spending of the past 8 years without using the word "tax(es)". Making a simple blanket statment of "taxes go up and growth stops, taxes go down and business booms" does not explain anything...and is far from true.

I can go on all day, but I don't want you to have a coronary......

[ben91]

Ben, the condesending tone is not appreciated.

It's obvious that you are stuck in one mindset about this topic and countering any of your statements are only going to go in circles.

And boo flucking hoo, Bush gave up golf. What a crock. I'd hope he would have to give up something as such to do things like.. i dunno... run this country[into the ground]. Step back and look at the big picture about the border patrol agents, it's NOT just about Bush, it's the whole situation.

Please bring some credible sources for some of you facts.... like Bush "is the primary responsible party for eradicating AIDS in Africa" (:lol:), or some concrete evidence.

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm:



followed by...



Are you suffering from alzheimers or do you just not know the definition of the word "contradiction"? Please explain to me in depth how companies don't pay taxes. Also, please give some examples of where Obama's administration is going to source funding to START fixing the over spending of the past 8 years without using the word "tax(es)". Making a simple blanket statment of "taxes go up and growth stops, taxes go down and business booms" does not explain anything...and is far from true.

I can go on all day, but I don't want you to have a coronary......

Any 'tone' was perceived on your end. All I did was counter your response to my original post. It's unfortunate that your disdain for our departing POTUS makes you wear blinders to the world.

I'm not a fan of Bush; I don't think he was a particularly great president, but I also don't think he was particularly poor. Why poo-poo on a sacrifice he made? How did Bush run the country to the ground? What negative events can be specifically attributed to him?

It's very simple. To increase tax revenue, you must increase GDP. To increase GDP, you must lower taxes. Lowering taxes is history proven to encourage growth, and raising taxes is history proven to stifle it.

Here, let me google this for you (http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=president%20bush%20aids%20africa)
http://www.discovery.org/a/3713
http://www.house.gov/jec/growth/taxpol/taxpol.htm
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/01/20030129-1.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/feb/15/georgebush.usa

No, I did not contradict myself, not one bit. Let's take a 3D look at the concept of "do corporations pay taxes?".
Let us assume customer Stig purchases a Widget from PimpTite Enterprises, LLC. The Widget was $100. PimpTite Industries recieves $100 for sale of said Widget plus $8 in state, county, and local sales taxes. In total, PTI has collected $108 of Stig's money for the sale of the Widget. PTI's total gross cost in ammortized design and marketing, manufacturing, warehousing, and other misc costs involved in sale of the Widget was $90, allowing for a $10 profit. The federal government taxes PTI $4, bringing net profit for the sale down to $6.

Now let's follow the money.
We start with $108 of Stig's money.
$90 of Stig's money recoups investment. We have $18 remaining.
$8 goes to various municipalities for sales tax. We have $10 remaining.
$6 is profit made by PTI and is either reinvested into the company or dispursed to shareholders.
$4 goes to the federal government in coporate tax. Where did this $4 come from? Stig's wallet.
Companies do not pay taxes. Its consumers do.

If you bothered to read through the links I posted, you learned that for every $1 in tax cuts creates $2 in economic growth. Remember, overall revenues are more important that overall tax rates!

[JennB]

Let us assume customer Stig purchases a Widget from PimpTite Enterprises, LLC.


$4 goes to the federal government in coporate tax.



Should have named it Pimptite, Inc.

LLC's don't pay corporate taxes. :p





Their profits are taxed though the shareholder's personal income tax returns.

[Doppelgänger]

Any 'tone' was perceived on your end. All I did was counter your response to my original post. It's unfortunate that your disdain for our departing POTUS makes you wear blinders to the world.




Don't think i'm trying to pick a battle/be a prick. But when many of your sentences start with and/or contain variants of "You need to..." , "You this" and "You that...", it is condesending. I have no problem telling people when their manners are starting to border on being rude, just like if we were out at dinner and you took a call on your phone and were talking loud, I would have no problem pointing out and telling you to lower your voice. I've had to do this to friends and complete strangers alike, I don't pick who to point things out to.

This is why political discussions are the quickest way to start arguements.:dunoo: I'm out on going back and forth with you Ben, it's clear you are on one side and I am on the other. Agree to disagree? :gent:

[N3v]

it would be the roadsterdrift policy to post random boobs in this thread right now to end things on a good note, but I'm afraid to do that. That's what this thread needs though.

[ben91]

Should have named it Pimptite, Inc.

LLC's don't pay corporate taxes. :p
Their profits are taxed though the shareholder's personal income tax returns.
Good to know! Thanks. :lol:

Don't think i'm trying to pick a battle/be a prick. But when many of your sentences start with and/or contain variants of "You need to..." , "You this" and "You that...", it is condesending. I have no problem telling people when their manners are starting to border on being rude, just like if we were out at dinner and you took a call on your phone and were talking loud, I would have no problem pointing out and telling you to lower your voice. I've had to do this to friends and complete strangers alike, I don't pick who to point things out to.

This is why political discussions are the quickest way to start arguements.:dunoo: I'm out on going back and forth with you Ben, it's clear you are on one side and I am on the other. Agree to disagree? :gent:
It's all in good fun man.

BTW, I did a little research into the border agent thing. They're not in trouble for shooting the mexican in the ***. They're in trouble for not reporting the shooting, and then later lieing to investigators about the event.

[metalman]

Its my opinion that people shouldnt expect/demand so much from government.
Therein lies much of the root of our recent fiscal problems.

What happened to the original American ideology of INDEPENDENCE and LESS government??
Why should we expect the government to see to it that we have a house, medical care, etc etc etc etc etc. I for one do not wish to pay for a 'better' infrastructure, and a larger one. I think that such costs are not only financial but require sacrifices in liberty and independence as well. I value liberty and freedom more thn $. I have been dirt poor, with no food in the cupboard and no money in my pocket...but, I never took a dime in government 'assistance'. I simply worked harder to pull myself up by my own bootstraps...like my ancestors did.

I think we study into it we will find that the policy of government 'interference' into real estate began with Jimmy Carter, and continued with every president since....as well as both parties of congress. The crack smoker notion that 'all Americans should be able to buy homes' is ridiculous! In the entire history of the world there have always been people who are not capable of earning, or paying their bills. Such should never own homes but remain renters from those who are able to take on that responsibility. Notions otherwise are purely 'socialist' or at the very least pie in the sky wishful thinking at best.

The same can be said for business other then real estate. Government 'tampering' and taxation only adds to the burden of its citizens. Obviously minimal regulations are required but the notion that every time we need something the gub'ment should 'step in' and 'do something' just irks me to no end.

Its also my opinion that along with this same type of thinking goes the idea that anyone who walks/runs/swims/sneaks across our borders should then receive the benefit of our infrastructure. The statue of liberty is quoted as an excuse. The thing is, that statue stands where people came to our shores LEGALLY....a huge difference. I regard America much like a lifeboat. It has a maximum capacity. Now we can do the 'right' thing and allow as many passengers aboard as possible, even overloading it to a point. BUT, at some point (and we are past it in my opinion) people MUST be turned away...VIGOROUSLY...otherwise the whole thing will sink and all of us will 'drown'.

The ideology of individual freedom and independence within a SOVEREIGN territory is sadly slipping away.

[metalman]

Difference of opinions does not equal ignorant. Without differing views, we would have no checks and balances to keep people in line. We wouldn't have much to talk about either.



I agree...and I would add...without an honest examination of the views/points of others one cannot expect to learn nearly as much either. A polite exchange of differing views can be a great benefit to both parties...particularly when the mind is open to learning.

[Oblio]

Take it a step further and you'll realize that it's completely retarded to tax companies at all. COMPANIES DO NOT PAY TAXES! The revenues are simply collected and paid by their customers! Other countries get it, and have very low corporate taxes. That's why businesses continue to move their operations overseas, employing people of other nations instead of ours. Don't you think it's a better idea to not tax corporations to incentivise them to return back to our country and employ our countrymen? Meanwhile the cost of goods and services will decrease, not just because that the taxes don't have to be collected, but also accountants and attorneys don't have to be involved in the tax revenue dispersement process.

:facepalm:
Another reason to support a national sales tax

[Oblio]

Its my opinion that people shouldnt expect/demand so much from government.
Therein lies much of the root of our recent fiscal problems.

What happened to the original American ideology of INDEPENDENCE and LESS government??
Why should we expect the government to see to it that we have a house, medical care, etc etc etc etc etc. I for one do not wish to pay for a 'better' infrastructure, and a larger one. I think that such costs are not only financial but require sacrifices in liberty and independence as well. I value liberty and freedom more thn $. I have been dirt poor, with no food in the cupboard and no money in my pocket...but, I never took a dime in government 'assistance'. I simply worked harder to pull myself up by my own bootstraps...like my ancestors did.

I think we study into it we will find that the policy of government 'interference' into real estate began with Jimmy Carter, and continued with every president since....as well as both parties of congress. The crack smoker notion that 'all Americans should be able to buy homes' is ridiculous! In the entire history of the world there have always been people who are not capable of earning, or paying their bills. Such should never own homes but remain renters from those who are able to take on that responsibility. Notions otherwise are purely 'socialist' or at the very least pie in the sky wishful thinking at best.

The same can be said for business other then real estate. Government 'tampering' and taxation only adds to the burden of its citizens. Obviously minimal regulations are required but the notion that every time we need something the gub'ment should 'step in' and 'do something' just irks me to no end.

Its also my opinion that along with this same type of thinking goes the idea that anyone who walks/runs/swims/sneaks across our borders should then receive the benefit of our infrastructure. The statue of liberty is quoted as an excuse. The thing is, that statue stands where people came to our shores LEGALLY....a huge difference. I regard America much like a lifeboat. It has a maximum capacity. Now we can do the 'right' thing and allow as many passengers aboard as possible, even overloading it to a point. BUT, at some point (and we are past it in my opinion) people MUST be turned away...VIGOROUSLY...otherwise the whole thing will sink and all of us will 'drown'.

The ideology of individual freedom and independence within a SOVEREIGN territory is sadly slipping away.
I agree that freedom is the most valuable commodity we have. Freedom from the Patriot act, Freedom from reloading the judicial corp of all conservative views, Freedom of medical research.
I do see the new administration looking to the Roosevelt era a new NEW DEAL. The idea would be to keep people working, paying taxes. A new power grid and Telcom grid could help keep jobs in the US too.

[metalman]

http://store.theonion.com/img/uploads/962

Black Man Given Nation's Worst Job

November 5, 2008 | Issue 44•45


WASHINGTON—African-American man Barack Obama, 47, was given the least-desirable job in the entire country Tuesday when he was elected president of the United States of America. In his new high-stress, low-reward position, Obama will be charged with such tasks as completely overhauling the nation's broken-down economy, repairing the crumbling infrastructure, and generally having to please more than 300 million Americans and cater to their every whim on a daily basis. As part of his duties, the black man will have to spend four to eight years cleaning up the messes other people left behind. The job comes with such intense scrutiny and so certain a guarantee of failure that only one other person even bothered applying for it. Said scholar and activist Mark L. Denton, "It just goes to show you that, in this country, a black man still can't catch a break."

[wildfire0310]

http://store.theonion.com/img/uploads/962

Black Man Given Nation's Worst Job

November 5, 2008 | Issue 44•45


WASHINGTON—African-American man Barack Obama, 47, was given the least-desirable job in the entire country Tuesday when he was elected president of the United States of America. In his new high-stress, low-reward position, Obama will be charged with such tasks as completely overhauling the nation's broken-down economy, repairing the crumbling infrastructure, and generally having to please more than 300 million Americans and cater to their every whim on a daily basis. As part of his duties, the black man will have to spend four to eight years cleaning up the messes other people left behind. The job comes with such intense scrutiny and so certain a guarantee of failure that only one other person even bothered applying for it. Said scholar and activist Mark L. Denton, "It just goes to show you that, in this country, a black man still can't catch a break."


That is wrong and great on so many levels

[metalman]

You liked that...maybe you'll like this... hahaha....




Obama Inauguration Speech Ruined By Incessant Jackhammering

January 21, 2009 | The Onion ---- Issue 45•04


WASHINGTON—President Barack Obama's Inauguration Day address—a speech that many believed would jumpstart the healing process of an ailing nation, foster hope and goodwill across the world, and serve as the ultimate stamp on the Democrat's historic win—was ruined Tuesday by nearly two hours of nonstop jackhammering.


Obama paid tribute to those brave Americans who paved the something for something something faith something history.

According to D.C. officials, the jackhammering interrupted the landmark address on 30 separate occasions and came from the nearby U.S. Botanic Garden, where it was being used to break up pavement for a new Heroes of Horticulture exhibit.

"My fellow—," began Obama, who then stopped when he and the 2.5 million citizens present, some of whom had traveled thousands of miles to experience the once-in-a-lifetime event, were startled by loud, metal-on-concrete banging. "My fell…my fell…my—."

"Is that a jackhammer?" Obama added.
Enlarge Image Inauguration Crowd

A crowd of millions gathered to partially hear the historic speech.

Though Obama first acknowledged the incessant jackhammering with an impromptu joke, saying, "Well, I know one guy who doesn't need a job," the typically poised orator grew gradually more annoyed as it became clear that the shrill thumping was not going to stop.

Obama appeared most frustrated about halfway through the address when reverberations from the pneumatic drill set off several dozen nearby car alarms, drowning out the new president's attempt to describe his vision for America's future in a changing world.

"If the person currently operating the jackhammer can hear me, please stop," Obama said at approximately the eight-minute mark of his speech. "Seriously, please. Stop it now."

The unremitting pounding caused the first African-American president to sigh or roll his eyes a combined 17 times, most notably during an apparently eloquent passage conveying his "lifelong desire to [unify or commit] the United States to a [common goal, higher purpose, or challenge] by 2012."

During a particularly loud spell of thuds, Obama muttered, "Oh, come on."

Footage of the event shows that when the president tried to explain how perseverence and pride could help rebuild a better society for all, he was interrupted not only by the jackhammer, but by several audience members who shouted, "Speak up," "Louder," and "I can't hear you over all this jackhammering."

At one point during the address, Obama stopped talking entirely and walked off the stage for nearly five minutes. When he returned, he asked the restless crowd for calm and understanding.

"Okay, so, it looks like they're not going to stop jackhammering. We're just going to have to keep going, I guess," Obama told the massive group, many of whom had already begun walking to their cars. "I'll try to speed through it."

A transcript released by his campaign prior to the address revealed that Obama ultimately cut the speech short by six pages, omitting a section about the conflict in Afghanistan and a point-by-point explanation of his economic recovery plan.

According to historian Doris Kearns Goodwin, one of the lasting images of the 2009 presidential inauguration will be Vice President Joe Biden, seated just 20 feet behind Obama, cupping his right ear in a desperate attempt to hear what the 44th president was saying.

"Inauguration addresses have always brought us inspirational and defining moments," Goodwin said. "FDR reminded Americans that all they had to fear was fear itself. John F. Kennedy encouraged citizens to ask what they could do for their country."

"And now President Barack Obama offers his own stirring message," Goodwin continued. "'Bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang.'"

Those in attendance agreed that it was nearly impossible to make out a single sentence of the historic address.

"I wanted to leave the speech with a feeling that this man was a beacon of hope, that he was going to lead us out of the doldrums and into a bold new beginning," said Nathaniel Washburn, a 72-year-old African-American who brought his grandchildren to the inauguration. "But I couldn't hear a goddamn thing."

"I thought it was really, really cool," said Washburn's 7-year-old grandson, Gregory. "When I grow up, I want to be a jackhammer operator."

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[RotorNutFD3S]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Doppelgänger]

That was entirely too long for such a weak punch-line.

[metalman]

That was entirely too long for such a weak punch-line.

Well, if you stop and think about it his speeches, a lengthy pointless story, and the sound of a jackhammer are all about the same. :lol:

[deerock]

pffft hes just another black family living in government housing. (no offense to any african americans, its just a joke.)

[GVfanatic]

Personally i didn't like him at first cuz i was raised up strictly republican, but after listening to his inaugural (did i spell that correctly) speech i really like the guy. He has a great sense of what it's like not to be born with a silver spoon in his mouth, he's cuttin down on people with govt jobs makin over 100k a year and he gave the people's eye and a stern finger pointing at the greedy wallstreet to let them know of the days of change to come. I'm far past ready for a good economy again.

[RotorNutFD3S]

Kris, glad you finally decided to post! Guess my pestering you everyday at work paid off. :D Be sure to post an introduction here: Introduce Yourself! (http://www.mx5atlanta.com/forums/showthread.php?p=22529&highlight=introduce#post22529)

He may have some good ideas, but I don't agree with his Guantanamo Bay plans. Some prisoners are getting released back to their home countries, and others get to go to confinement here in the states. He's putting the war crime tribunals on hold. I feel it's a sign that we're not taking our borders and defense seriously. We'll see though. He's got a lot to accomplish.

[Redraceface]

I do not think that obama as pres will do anything more than stifle the economy more if he continues with his economic stimulus plan, He clearly is a student of the old saying “from each according to their ability to each according to their needs”, and how he got into the senate by having his opponent removed from the ticket (he won by default), and his ties to William Aires, Saul Alenski, Rev. Wright To name a few. What I find most disconcerting is that for some reason everyone thinks we live in a democracy or that our nation was founded as one, but nothing could be more erroneous our nation was started as, and should continue to be a Republic, sense Obama does not seem to understand this concept I do not have much faith in him, or he may very well understand in which case we really are up **** creek example: a once very powerful man said “What luck for rulers that men do not think”. By the way I consider everyone in this forum my friend, and do not wish that my opinion would start an argument with anyone of you, so please do not try a spiteful counter to my posting.

[N3v]

...so please do not try a spiteful counter to my posting.

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn49/n3v1789/2-SLATEKITCHENCOUNTERTOP.jpg

[RotorNutFD3S]

You know, the rules say no messing around in here, but that's f***ing hilarious in my tired mind!

[JennB]

and how he got into the senate by having his opponent removed from the ticket (he won by default),

That's not entirely true. Yes, Ryan dropped out of the race but Obama ran against Keyes in the general election. Obama received over 3 million votes and Keyes nearly 1.5 million. I hardly think that over 5 million people casting votes is winning by default.

[Redraceface]

^^^trust me, if you were running against Keyes when he entered the election you would have won.

[JennB]

The Illinois Republican Party selected him and he ran a race. That's not default. No matter how much of an odd choice he was, it was still made. I actually lived very close to Illinois during this race, it was on the news all of the time.

I was just in Chicago the other day and the support there for Obama is overwhelming. They do not see him as a winner by default, they are very proud and overall quite happy with his work.

[BFH miata]

and now he is pushing for a HUGE stimulus package that includes a lot of spending that will not filter into the economy until 2010. If they want to stimulate it, they should stop pulling federal taxes out of pay checks for a few months and let the people stimulate the economy...

[metalman]

and now he is pushing for a HUGE stimulus package that includes a lot of spending that will not filter into the economy until 2010. If they want to stimulate it, they should stop pulling federal taxes out of pay checks for a few months and let the people stimulate the economy...

The Obama concepts in this area dont really differ much from the Bush concepts...I think neither will work. Sizable spending CUTS along with what you suggest would likely work better.
Even so, the mess we are currently in will likely take years...I am talking decades here...to work out of. Continuing to bail out companies etc will only prolong the agony. Obamas concepts were tried by FDR...and he only succeeded in making the depression last...and last.
The only thing that broke it was a world war.

[ben91]

I was just in Chicago the other day and the support there for Obama is overwhelming. They do not see him as a winner by default, they are very proud and overall quite happy with his work.
Big shocker that Chicago would support the furthest left of all the senators.

Further big shocker that Obama would bash previous "Bush" stimulus, but tout how vital further stimulus is.

Also, the Chicago political machine is arguably the most corrupt in the nation. I say arguably as Miami ain't much better.

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn49/n3v1789/2-SLATEKITCHENCOUNTERTOP.jpg

As Eric said, there is no messing around in here...




But I genuinely lol'd at that! :lol:

[N3v]

haha, sorry, I had to.

[jcmkam1990]

I got tired attempted to read evey post in the thread. Number 1, companies do not really pay taxes. They pass any tax increase on to the consumer. ( please feel free too enroll in macroeconomics at any university). Number 2, I did not see anyone post about Obama's feelings on gun ownership. He wants to not only register every firearm, but also all ammo. See NRA website for details. I realize W and the so called Republicans spent like never before, but I can't support the most Liberal junior Senator with no record. All one has to do is look at his cabinet. Change??????? Welcome to Clinton Administration #3.

[ben91]

I got tired attempted to read evey post in the thread. Number 1, companies do not really pay taxes. They pass any tax increase on to the consumer. ( please feel free too enroll in macroeconomics at any university). Number 2, I did not see anyone post about Obama's feelings on gun ownership. He wants to not only register every firearm, but also all ammo. See NRA website for details. I realize W and the so called Republicans spent like never before, but I can't support the most Liberal junior Senator with no record. All one has to do is look at his cabinet. Change??????? Welcome to Clinton Administration #3.I mentioned 1 and 2. Deaf ears here bro, deaf ears.

[Oblio]

Big shocker that Chicago would support the furthest left of all the senators.

Further big shocker that Obama would bash previous "Bush" stimulus, but tout how vital further stimulus is.

Also, the Chicago political machine is arguably the most corrupt in the nation. I say arguably as Miami ain't much better.

The Bush stimulus had no over site (excuse the pun) lending to some extremely bad behavior by the banks....i.e. giving out bonus and not extending lending to Joe Six Pack this is corporate welfare as bad as where the lady with six kids has another and just gets more money every month

[Redraceface]

The Bush stimulus had no over site (excuse the pun) lending to some extremely bad behavior by the banks....i.e. giving out bonus and not extending lending to Joe Six Pack this is corporate welfare as bad as where the lady with six kids has another and just gets more money every month

The first problem with that statement was that some (not all mind you) of the banks that received the bail out money where forced to take it by the government. second problem is, banks are in the business of making money, and not losing money, but if they have a high projected loss, and they hire an executive that will reduce that loss I think he deserves a bonus, hell I'd expect one if it where me. one more thing obama is wrong to say that "now is not the time for those things" in regards to profits, and bonuses. who is he to say when its time to make profits, and bonuses, I mean to say that he is not an administrator (he's never signed a payroll check), but rather a propagandist whom happened to fall back asswards in to the presidency, what the hell does he know about capitalism?.

[Redraceface]

be careful that you do not fall in that trap of vilanizing ALL the banks, remember it was a handful of banks that were not behaving not all.

[JennB]

I mentioned 1 and 2. Deaf ears here bro, deaf ears.

Wrong. People just have different views and opinions on things. It's called open discussion. Just because someone doesn't agree doesn't mean they are wrong or they are not listening, they just don't see it that same way you do.

[ben91]

No argument with that.

[simontibbett]

Wrong. People just have different views and opinions on things. It's called open discussion. Just because someone doesn't agree doesn't mean they are wrong or they are not listening, they just don't see it that same way you do.

Hell yeah.

[Oblio]

The first problem with that statement was that some (not all mind you) of the banks that received the bail out money where forced to take it by the government. second problem is, banks are in the business of making money, and not losing money, but if they have a high projected loss, and they hire an executive that will reduce that loss I think he deserves a bonus, hell I'd expect one if it where me. one more thing obama is wrong to say that "now is not the time for those things" in regards to profits, and bonuses. who is he to say when its time to make profits, and bonuses, I mean to say that he is not an administrator (he's never signed a payroll check), but rather a propagandist whom happened to fall back asswards in to the presidency, what the hell does he know about capitalism?.

I couldn't agree more that Bush fell back asswards into the presidency. Now lets look at your statements. As far as knowing capitalism, I'm guessing Obama was required to take some economics classes at Harvard, where did you go?

False statment. "now is not the time for those things" in regards to profits, and bonuses. who is he to say when its time to make profits, and bonuses,
Context: the President was commenting that whole point of the bank stimulus package was get loans flowing not line the pockets of the executives.

You are corect that most business are here to make money. But when MY tax dollars are being spent to keep them afloat, a little over site to see that they are not getting bounces that are lager than you and I will make in a lifetime.

Lastly in capitalism business fail, it is not the job of the TAX PAYER to keep company's afloat kind of like wellfair...hummmmm

[Redraceface]

I couldn't agree more that Bush fell back asswards into the presidency. Now lets look at your statements. As far as knowing capitalism, I'm guessing Obama was required to take some economics classes at Harvard, where did you go?

False statment. "now is not the time for those things" in regards to profits, and bonuses. who is he to say when its time to make profits, and bonuses,
Context: the President was commenting that whole point of the bank stimulus package was get loans flowing not line the pockets of the executives.

You are corect that most business are here to make money. But when MY tax dollars are being spent to keep them afloat, a little over site to see that they are not getting bounces that are lager than you and I will make in a lifetime.

Lastly in capitalism business fail, it is not the job of the TAX PAYER to keep company's afloat kind of like wellfair...hummmmm

It does not matter that he is a Harvard alumni, which does not instantly qualify one to have the business savvy to administrate over a national economy (especially one who has never run a small economy or business). If you want to have political discourse with me, first I must ask that you argue in facts, not conjectures, and anecdotes, and I also ask that you look at what I write with at least a small degree of objectivity, finally I ask that you are not rude, and condescending. I couldn’t agree more with you on certain issues, however it seems as though you’re not really comprehending what I’m advocating. I’m a capitalist entrepreneur, and I’m not saying that executives should line their pockets with tax payer money, or that we should have bailed them out in the first place in fact just the opposite. If Obama studied capitalism, or even economics at Harvard then he would more than likely think like a bussness man, and not an idealist, Saul Alenski loving, William Aires befriending, Marxist. You wanna know what else I never finished Collage (I Studied Radiography by the way) I don’t think I need to prove my Intellect to you through my going to institutions of academia one does not need to go to college to know how to study, and read books , so I assure you I do not lack incite, or intellect.

[Redraceface]

"the President was commenting that whole point of the bank stimulus package was get loans flowing not line the pockets of the executives."

If he had said that I would believe you, but he never said that in any context.

[metalman]

Lastly in capitalism business fail, it is not the job of the TAX PAYER to keep company's afloat kind of like wellfair...hummmmm

True!
The overwhelming majority of your tax dollars used in the 'failout' are going to overseas banking institutions. This is even more of an insult to taxpayers. The reasoning behind this is that if we let those institutions 'fail' it will cause us to 'collapse'. Once again, the USA takes on the impossible task of 'fixing' the world for everyone. Its my sad opinion that in the long run the US will be brought to her knees, and this basic method of 'bleeding' the giant (immigration issues & police action wars also apply here) will be the means of our demise.

Hows that for a happy outlook? :lol:

[Redraceface]

True!
The overwhelming majority of your tax dollars used in the 'failout' are going to overseas banking institutions. This is even more of an insult to taxpayers. The reasoning behind this is that if we let those institutions 'fail' it will cause us to 'collapse'. Once again, the USA takes on the impossible task of 'fixing' the world for everyone. Its my sad opinion that in the long run the US will be brought to her knees, and this basic method of 'bleeding' the giant (immigration issues & police action wars also apply here) will be the means of our demise.

Hows that for a happy outlook? :lol:

Yes yes, very true Look what happened to Rome.
throughout the course of history this is the how to brake it down...
1. From Bondage to spiritual faith;
2. From spiritual faith to great courage;
3. From courage to liberty;
4. From liberty to abundance;
5. From abundance to complacency;
6. From complacency to apathy;
7. From apathy to dependence;
8. From dependence back into bondage

[Redraceface]

I think the current state of our country is at number 7 on the list.

[Redraceface]

by the way the list is courtesy of Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh.

[Redraceface]

He also said this about the fall of the Athenian republic..." A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship."

[mustangtomiata]

Although I don't see much in Obama's policies I do hope he succeeds, because above being a Democrat or Republican we are all AMERICANS, and it should be in our best interest to do what is best for our country otherwise we will have no country. I also want to say this is a great thread in that many good points were spoken for on both sides and jenn was especially correct in saying we need open disucussion and opposing views so we stay in line and also Kurt saying an open mind learns from an opposing argument. Proof in point: I am a conservative and my father(conservative, whose voice I've heard the strongest throughout my life), My mom(democratish, parents are divroced but not because of that) and my stepdad(RIP) all taught me different views on life and politics, but it was mainly my stepdad. My dad and I see eye to eye on almost every issue which gives us almost no political discussion and my mom listens to what i say and has her points but my stepdad and I would debate over politics constantly and he taught me so much about life even though i agreed with little he said. People need to get overthemsleves and quit thinkin they are the best and then we will all learn.

[metalman]

Obama's latest speech was once again full of fluff, nonsensical "pleasant sounding" rhetoric, and bullsheit. He is rapidly convincing me that he is far worse then I even expected.

He has already demonstrated himself to be an absolute liar and primarily interested in pay backs to those who elected him. During his campaign he promised that his stimulus plan would bring 'change' and that congress would have time (he even cited some specifics) to review the contents fully. Yet NOT ONE in congress had ANY time to review the bill. It was handed to them and then a vote was called for. Other then those who wrote it NO ONE knows whats in it. I doubt even those who wrote it have much clue beyond the section they were responsible for. In order to review the 1000 pages of crap one would have to have the complete United States Code next to it to read side by side and analyze and NO ONE had ANY time for that. That was very deliberate on the part of those pushing it. Obama facilitated that. IMHO Obama is the smooth talking figurehead of that group. The bill is primarily pork, it doesnt bring change to the average American citizen worker....unless you count change as paybacks to special interests, more wasteful spending, and further plunges our Nation into debt and further eroding our freedom & sovereignty.

Instead of focusing on getting a black man elected the citizens of the US should have concentrated on getting the RIGHT man elected...regardless of skin hue.
I would admit fully that our present situation is beyond one man or leader but I dont think its wrong to wish sincerely we had a smart one in office who had a decent grasp on the REAL issues and perhaps even an agenda that actually addressed those issues with honesty, integrity, and the best interests of the people while honoring the constitution. We clearly dont have such. Instead we have the recycled politics of the past which failed and led us to this point to begin with. We have a pep talk reciting BS artist, easing the masses with pleasant sounding 'musical' phrases while actually contradicting those phrases in action. Kinda reminds me of a certain Roman emperor who played the violin.

Sorry to hold back, next time I'll say what I really think. :lol:

[jzilla]

This is what i wanna see. Our economy has not been like this since 1997. Then Clinton and congress implemented all those bills week after week. Man, there were so many jobs in 1999 when i graduated college, it wasn't even funny. I wanna see that again, i wanna see the stocks rise. I don't care who does it. i wanna see it.

[simontibbett]

^Truth.

We need a new boom. Will it be the legalization of marijuana?

[wildfire0310]

Instead of creating more ways to give money back to the people, what the government needs to do is open up more government funded jobs to allow the unemployed to start working again instead.

I mentioned something to Mike, yesterday and I know that most people would have similar mindset. I wouldn't care about my tax dollars or having a higher(within a limit) taxes if I saw the benefit of my tax dollars. Stuff like paving city streets and other simple but useful jobs that need to be done.

Also I agree with some others comments, we live in a capitalist country. Big businesses will grow and shrink and even go under just so some newer, more in touch company can grow to replace them. That is change.. that is evolution and capitalism at it's core.

[metalman]

Instead of creating more ways to give money back to the people, what the government needs to do is open up more government funded jobs to allow the unemployed to start working again instead.


The key to this is small business. Our current policies however are detrimental to that.

[scandmx5]

Kurt be careful...i wouldn't want the Obama SS and gestapo to show up at Metal Mart for insulting our messiah.pshh

[lance]

The key to this is small business. Our current policies however are detrimental to that.

Unfortunately the small business man will (if he is successful) be making more than $250K. At that point several things happen. He is no longer classified as a "working man" or "working family", despite the fact that he is probably putting in 80hrs a week to keep and grow his business.

He is also then characterized as the "evil rich" who needs to be taxed at (in Obama's latest plan) 39% of his income. The result is that he has less money to put back into growing his business and providing more jobs, he spends the money he would have spent on the business on taxes so that the government can buy digital converter boxes for people with analog tvs:facepalm:

When is the last time a poor person gave you a job.

[lawguy85]

Obama's latest speech was once again full of fluff, nonsensical "pleasant sounding" rhetoric, and bullsheit. He is rapidly convincing me that he is far worse then I even expected.

He has already demonstrated himself to be an absolute liar and primarily interested in pay backs to those who elected him. During his campaign he promised that his stimulus plan would bring 'change' and that congress would have time (he even cited some specifics) to review the contents fully. Yet NOT ONE in congress had ANY time to review the bill. It was handed to them and then a vote was called for. Other then those who wrote it NO ONE knows whats in it. I doubt even those who wrote it have much clue beyond the section they were responsible for. In order to review the 1000 pages of crap one would have to have the complete United States Code next to it to read side by side and analyze and NO ONE had ANY time for that. That was very deliberate on the part of those pushing it. Obama facilitated that. IMHO Obama is the smooth talking figurehead of that group. The bill is primarily pork, it doesnt bring change to the average American citizen worker....unless you count change as paybacks to special interests, more wasteful spending, and further plunges our Nation into debt and further eroding our freedom & sovereignty.

Instead of focusing on getting a black man elected the citizens of the US should have concentrated on getting the RIGHT man elected...regardless of skin hue.
I would admit fully that our present situation is beyond one man or leader but I dont think its wrong to wish sincerely we had a smart one in office who had a decent grasp on the REAL issues and perhaps even an agenda that actually addressed those issues with honesty, integrity, and the best interests of the people while honoring the constitution. We clearly dont have such. Instead we have the recycled politics of the past which failed and led us to this point to begin with. We have a pep talk reciting BS artist, easing the masses with pleasant sounding 'musical' phrases while actually contradicting those phrases in action. Kinda reminds me of a certain Roman emperor who played the violin.

Sorry to hold back, next time I'll say what I really think. :lol:

......and that man was? John McCain? Sarah Palin? Ralph Nader? Cynthia McKinny? Its a two party system, and your side nominated a geezer and a bimbo. Blame your party for their stupid choice of a candidate, not the general population for picking the best of the two. Here's the fundemental problem with Republicans, all they want to do is talk talk talk. No wonder talk radio is filled with republicans, it's the career most suited for the conservative tradition of all talk and no solution. This economy has been in the tank since last year, and it really started spiralling out of control in August. What did the Republicans do while they were in power? They passed a bill aimed at writing off toxic mortgages, but they changed the purpose of the bill a few weeks later b/c they felt mortgages weren't the real problem. That's real forsight and fortitude on display. A little under 6 months, and that's all republican leadership can offer. Now that the president is being proactive all the republicans can offer is *****ing and moaning. Offer a solution, or shut the hell up. Staying still isn't an option. Implementing a few tax breaks isn't an option. Everyone seems to agree that the economy is in cardiac arrest, but why are republicans saying let it be? The president is giving it a jolt, which is exactly what it needs at the moment.

[scandmx5]

......and that man was? John McCain? Sarah Palin? Ralph Nader? Cynthia McKinny? Its a two party system, and your side nominated a geezer and a bimbo. Blame your party for their stupid choice of a candidate, not the general population for picking the best of the two. Here's the fundemental problem with Republicans, all they want to do is talk talk talk. No wonder talk radio is filled with republicans, it's the career most suited for the conservative tradition of all talk and no solution. This economy has been in the tank since last year, and it really started spiralling out of control in August. What did the Republicans do while they were in power? They passed a bill aimed at writing off toxic mortgages, but they changed the purpose of the bill a few weeks later b/c they felt mortgages weren't the real problem. That's real forsight and fortitude on display. A little under 6 months, and that's all republican leadership can offer. Now that the president is being proactive all the republicans can offer is *****ing and moaning. Offer a solution, or shut the hell up. Staying still isn't an option. Implementing a few tax breaks isn't an option. Everyone seems to agree that the economy is in cardiac arrest, but why are republicans saying let it be? The president is giving it a jolt, which is exactly what it needs at the moment.


ROFLCOPTER @ cynthia mckinney!!

[metalman]

When is the last time a poor person gave you a job.

I'll answer that by saying NEVER. I have only gotten jobs from people
that USED to be poor.

I have no problem helping poor folks. Its the 'right' human thing to do.
But, the best way to assist them is to create an environment where they
have not much excuse to remain so.
And, when some choose to do so, which they will, let them be.

This nation was built by 'poor' people...but those people didnt remain poor, they diligently worked their small business in the fashion you have described, some even more, to a point of prosperity...which allowed other poor folks to work with them and for them, enriching all.

[metalman]

.Its a two party system, and your side nominated a geezer and a bimbo. Blame your party...blah blah blah.

Hold on there chief, you have ASSumed much...and jumped huge incorrect conclusions about me.
Perhaps you should know of WHO you speak before ranting on. Thanks

[RotorNutFD3S]

lawguy, comments in this thread are NOT to be aimed at any other member or their opinions. You can voice your opinion and respond to other's ideas, but you're bordering on attacking. Ease up.

EDIT - And that ^^^ is why.

[lawguy85]

I was going more for point/counterpoint than attacking someone who I know nothing about. Point taken, I'll fall back.

[jester911]

As with most political "discussions" this ends up in personal attacks when out of actual facts or ideas.

If action means writing blank checks to any and all deemed worthy then doing nothing would prove much cheaper. As for Republicans in power putting us in this situation that is really not factual. Most of the mortgage crisis was put into motion way back in the Clinton administration and was helped along plenty with the guys that used to run Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae who now just happen to be the main financial advisers in the Obama administration.

Also lets not confuse the Republicans in the last decade or so as conservatives. They are far from real conservatives and that includes the previous Bush administration.

The thing that seems to be really disturbing about what is going on now is that by taking trillions of dollars of OUR money and redistributing it to the industry in crisis du jour is somehow going to create more jobs and a better economy.

This is socialism plane and simple which has been tried many times over with all of them being failures.

Someone please explain to me how this redistribution is going to pull us out of this recession.

[metalman]

......and that man was? John McCain? Sarah Palin? Ralph Nader? Cynthia McKinny? .

None of the above. I am neither an Elephant nor a Jackass. :lol:
I have no loyalty to either party, or any party. I am loyal to the Constitution
and republican (not the party) principles this country is founded upon.

First, our problem is systemic, there is no 'party' answer.
The two party system might even be characterized as part of the problem even at this point.
The parties arent really much different currently. Both SPEND & WASTE and contribute to the erosion of our sovereignty & freedom.
Second, that systemic issue leads us to a point where the majority of our 'choices' could be likened to choosing between a turd and piece of crap. (IMHO)

Lastly it was overwhelming clear to me personally that only one person among the so called 'choices', an imperfect person to be sure, had even the slightest grasp on the core issues facing us...(on which Obama is apparently clueless) as well as some real sound basic answers as to what needed to be done.

His delivery is not polished, his views and blatant honesty not accepted by either party. What I find even more disturbing is that the candidates of both parties were not even able to intelligently debate the issues that man raised. The blank unknowing looks when he asked questions were amazing. The desire to quiet him by the GOP (and media) was astounding. Even some rabid liberal democrats acknowledge his truth and honesty...I am speaking of Ron Paul. Sadly such a man could not be elected at this time....and the reason for that is systemic...its rampant in both parties, and among citizens for that matter.

Keep in mind, I dont see him as a messiah savior either. ANY person put into office would be faced with the current insane congress, run primarily now by wacko dems, so their ability to affect change would be limited. Ron Paul would be no exception. But, with Obama being an apparent manufactured tool of this left wing movement and systemic issue things will be even worse.

The "jolt" you speak of is more likely to be similar to the jolt one feels in the electric chair...that ultimately causes pain and death.

As Rotornut mentioned....these are MY opinions....others may vary.

[scandmx5]

As with most political "discussions" this ends up in personal attacks when out of actual facts or ideas.

If action means writing blank checks to any and all deemed worthy then doing nothing would prove much cheaper. As for Republicans in power putting us in this situation that is really not factual. Most of the mortgage crisis was put into motion way back in the Clinton administration and was helped along plenty with the guys that used to run Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae who now just happen to be the main financial advisers in the Obama administration.

Also lets not confuse the Republicans in the last decade or so as conservatives. They are far from real conservatives and that includes the previous Bush administration.

The thing that seems to be really disturbing about what is going on now is that by taking trillions of dollars of OUR money and redistributing it to the industry in crisis du jour is somehow going to create more jobs and a better economy.

This is socialism plane and simple which has been tried many times over with all of them being failures.

Someone please explain to me how this redistribution is going to pull us out of this recession.

well said and true IMHO

[metalman]

Most of the mortgage crisis was put into motion way back in the Clinton administration and was helped along plenty with the guys that used to run Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae who now just happen to be the main financial advisers in the Obama administration.



Ugly little facts. I think Carter deserves some credit too. Both he and Clinton have wacko notions that all Americans should own a home...even those who cant afford to.
People tend to credit sitting presidents with whatever financial circumstances theyre experiencing at the time. This practice is often highly inaccurate.

[lance]

I'll answer that by saying NEVER. I have only gotten jobs from people
that USED to be poor.

I have no problem helping poor folks. Its the 'right' human thing to do.
But, the best way to assist them is to create an environment where they
have not much excuse to remain so.
And, when some choose to do so, which they will, let them be.

This nation was built by 'poor' people...but those people didnt remain poor, they diligently worked their small business in the fashion you have described, some even more, to a point of prosperity...which allowed other poor folks to work with them and for them, enriching all.

You are correct, however we are now in an era that people like that are to be disparaged because they lived the "American Dream",lifted themselves up by the bootstraps and then became :jawdrop: "Rich" and should be punished.

[jester911]

Lance you clearly are one of those living the dream.
Here are your instructions for filing your income taxes from now on.

Add up all of your earnings for the year.
Now send that amount to the IRS.
You clearly have made enough so you won't be needing anymore.

[metalman]

You are correct, however we are now in an era that people like that are to be disparaged because they lived the "American Dream",lifted themselves up by the bootstraps and then became :jawdrop: "Rich" and should be punished.

I think that has been identified correctly as 'socialist' ideology.
The current notion is that somehow the situation should be manipulated and/or controlled
by Uncle Sam so prosperity is more equally shared rather then allowing ANY that work hard to enjoy the fruits of their labor.

In my opinion I see the movement toward a global economy to be tied to that.
Political policies are driven by perceived 'markets' and opinions of others abroad rather then this so called American Dream ideology. Also consequently then that 'dream' should be 'provided freely' to any, even illegal outsider, that asks....rather then be earned by hard work and legal entry. Sovereignty goes out the window...along with freedom and cash.

[metalman]

Lance you clearly are one of those living the dream.
Here are your instructions for filing your income taxes from now on.

Add up all of your earnings for the year.
Now send that amount to the IRS.
You clearly have made enough so you won't be needing anymore.

Thats the 1040 SUPER EZ :lol:

[scandmx5]

i want a foot tall top hat, tux w/ ascot, a pipe, and two union jack ambassador flags on the front of that car all whilst riding around saying "good day suh":banana:

[metalman]

W - Life after the Whitehouse

[metalman]

Apparently the change Obama brought wasn't what we were thinking....



Then....

[metalman]

Now....

[ben91]

Is it just me, or does the first lady look like James Brown?

[scandmx5]

Is it just me, or does the first lady look like James Brown?

in a way...yes
but i was thinking more along the lines of mazira
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c263/cobrar18s/michelleobamazira.jpg

(no racial pun intended)
i know lawguy85 will have a fit b/c michelle obama is his queen lolz

[ben91]

apparently I'm not alone...
Google FTW:

http://www.candidatestats.com/michelle_obama_james_brown.jpg

[mustangtomiata]

Is it just me, or does the first lady look like James Brown?

HAHAHA...my cousin has an old ford that james brown owned lolz. Didn't know it end up having some tie into the government.

[metalman]

That Mrs Obama sure can sing!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzlpTRNIAvc

[Redraceface]

Well half of your Bin Laden problems can be related to your ex dumb **** of a human...Mr. Bush. He didn't do too well with that.

Nobody here that I read has said Obama himself his term can turn this crap America to a beautiful rich strong economy. I know people say that, but even I know that's not true.

I think you mean Clinton after all he's the one who let Bin Laden go after he was captured. It only became Bush's problem because of that... I think history will be kind to Bush the only thing he did wrong was to allow the republicans to go ape **** with reckless spending and forgetting what it means to be a true fiscal conservative. one funny side note I did agree with his ban on federal funding for scientific research i.e. stem cell research, but I disagree with the why(morality) there is a fine line between morality, and justice even though I respect a leader with a firm moral and religious background I do not believe it is right to use the police power of government to tell someone else what the can, and can't do with there own life, body, and etc.

[mustangtomiata]

...ape **** with reckless spending and forgetting what it means to be a true fiscal conservative...

That is very very true. I can't remember where I read it or heard it, but someone said the difference between Bush and Obama is bush was taking us towards socialism on a steam train and Obama is taking us on a Jet plane.

[Redraceface]

That is very very true. I can't remember where I read it or heard it, but someone said the difference between Bush and Obama is bush was taking us towards socialism on a steam train and Obama is taking us on a Jet plane.

That's funny as crap and yes it's true very unfortunate, but true.

[mustangtomiata]

The part I quoted from you was no opinion it was a statement of fact. haha

[Redraceface]

The part I quoted from you was no opinion it was a statement of fact. haha

Yeah I pulled that comment out it was all wrong I should pay more attn next time. lawman is the one I should have responded to however I read his profile and decided it was not worth my time. If there is one thing that I've learned in as many debates that I've found my self in, is that you don't argue with someone who thinks your below them they simply will not listen. thats Ok he can wallow in his hubris alone.

[Puddleglum]

Don't know if you guys have read this article yet, but our current President has ALREADY spent more money than every president from George Washington up to George W. Bush COMBINED!!!

[Pitt]

but why did he have to do that? was it because of every president from Washington to W combined?

[JDM88]

Would you rather him sktthere and wait for things to fix themselves? Action needed taking. Got any better realistic answers?

[redrumracer]

Would you rather him sktthere and wait for things to fix themselves? Action needed taking. Got any better realistic answers?
stop spending money and lower taxes so companies will be more inclined to stay here instead of going out of country, among other things.

[Pitt]

stop spending money and lower taxes so companies will be more inclined to stay here instead of going out of country, among other things.

But they've been doing that BEFORE Obama took office, there is no way we can fix that until we get our selves under control again, then we'll be able to give back...**** has hit the fan and flung all over us, now we have to just smile and wait for it to be cleaned off.

[metalman]

We might have our necks at risk in this economy....

[metalman]

...but Obama is there to 'help' us. ;)

[mustangtomiata]

We might have our necks at risk in this economy....

...but Obama is there to 'help' us. ;)




HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, I haven't kaughed this hars since I was a Catholic school girl! And for those who think spending money we don't have will fix our problem :facepalm:

[mustangtomiata]

and of course the damn pictures don't show up that made it so funny...

[Pitt]

I think its hilarious that folks get so up in arms over "OBAMA", its like saying "SATAN" to a nun. Regardless of who is in office this term, they are ****ed, and everyone is gonna remember them when it was the presidents of our past that lead us in this direction. He made mention of our awful economy way before anyone on McCain's campain. There I said it.

[metalman]

Regardless of who is in office this term, they are ****ed,

I would agree. However, Obama is seriously adding to the ****ing. In fact he may go down in history as one of the biggest ****ers of our economy....if his (and Pelosi's) insane spending policies so far are any indication.

[mustangtomiata]

I think I just fell in love with google.

[mustangtomiata]

I think i just fell in love with google.

[Pitt]

I'm not a fan of Pelosi.

But seriously, Any president this term would be in the hot seat just like Obama and be blamed and fingered for everything. I say give the guy a chance and see if he can prove us wrong. If he doesn't then he'll have zero chance of re-election and the Republicans will look like gods to the rest of america.

[mustangtomiata]

I'm not a fan of Pelosi.

But seriously, Any president this term would be in the hot seat just like Obama and be blamed and fingered for everything. I say give the guy a chance and see if he can prove us wrong. If he doesn't then he'll have zero chance of re-election and the Republicans will look like gods to the rest of america.


I agree anyone would be getting picked at I just don't Obama is helping himself any. What really made me laugh is I typed in head up *** and that picture with nothing showed up and then one a few rows down had it and it said a true liberal at the bottom of the picture and then that Obama one came up. I do hope he does good but I wish Pelosi woould get run over by a train.

[mustangtomiata]

Begin the Pelosi hate train. All Aboard!

[metalman]

But seriously, Any president this term would be in the hot seat just like Obama and be blamed and fingered for everything.

I for one am not blaming him for our problems, but for adding to them.
Especially in the longer term.
I am well aware that sitting presidents often gain the favor or disdain of the people
based upon what happens during their term, even if they didnt have anything much to do with it. My problem with the Obama/Pelosi plan is that its just more of the same senseless spending and even bigger gub'ment...which is what got us here to begin with.
Furthermore, I dont see much difference in Pelosi and Obama.

[pirk42]

This probably wont get read as this is an old string. Its late and I can't sleep so I read thru many of the comments. I want to push you all to look into the main points of the Libertarian party. For me governments is about offering us protection from criminals, other hostile nations, taking care of city infrastructure, and doing this with real checks and balances. We DONT need protection from ourselves. We don't need laws keeping us from being stupid.

Lets hope the Libertarian party or at least SOME other party starts getting attention. Getting rid of legal lobbyist. Get back to government for the people, not for the ones that group up tight put there money together and buy an elected official.

ok,,,,, benadryl is kicking in. ignore any stupid points, and except all else as 'the word'

[lazybones]

Obama has done absolutely nothing. He's the most useless "contribution" to this country. I think he'd rather be getting prepped for his next photo op for the cover of some celebrity trash magazine than do any actual business. He keeps wasting taxpayers money with all these little pizza parties and whatnot that he throws. He couldn't even make it to the d.c. Fireworks like other presidents..mustve been doing some really important presidential stuff...... Ha. He was considerate enough to send a pre-recorded salute though! How sweet....

[MoD_Scotty]

Obama has done absolutely nothing.

Actually, he's done a few things since taking office:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing_room/PresidentialActions/

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

Actually, he's done a few things since taking office:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing_room/PresidentialActions/

I think he's been doing quite well truth be told. I think he's handled the Iran situation just right.

[scandmx5]

i'm with you old boy. sorry for the englishism lol. at first i was terrified of the reality of him being in office but truth be told it was the far left groups that hyped him to that scary appeal to us non obamabots. i think he's done quite well and would vote for him any day over sarah.

[JDM88]

Well however he does, it works.

[matredd]

Interesting editorial: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aTKrn1jUJwdE (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aTKrn1jUJwdE)

[wildfire0310]

I think he's been doing quite well truth be told. I think he's handled the Iran situation just right.


Well as non obama supporter... I wouldn't really say doing a good job or anything. He is more or less just trying to keep use at the same point as it was when he came into office, which is what most prez do. Unfortunately that same place is a nice downward economical slide(yes I know Obama is not to blame), but at least he hasn't made the slide worst.

[JDM88]

Well I don't think anyone should be labelling themselves as a supporter or non-suporter, he's the president, not a sports team. Either way implies a bias/slanted view.

I think the downward slide is starting to get a little less steep. In reality there's nothing that anyone can do that would fix it overnight, it's almost a null point at this stage.

[wildfire0310]

Well I don't think anyone should be labelling themselves as a supporter or non-suporter, he's the president, not a sports team. Either way implies a bias/slanted view.

I think the downward slide is starting to get a little less steep. In reality there's nothing that anyone can do that would fix it overnight, it's almost a null point at this stage.


Well I say non-supporter as in someone that had a different idea or views them his/his parties view. Yes he is the president doesn't mean I have to like him or his ideas, it just means I have to respect that "majority" vote him into office and that I should give him a chance.

As for the downward slide. From where I am standing and it seems like the slope is getting worse. I know a few people whos company is laying off whole departments now instead of just few people here and there. Granted I starting to think we need to just hit rock bottom and start again. Cause you can't build a good building if the foundation is crap. Right now are economic foundation is crap.

[JDM88]

Eric/Casey delete these 2 posts please and deal with them appropriately. This section does not allow any messing around.

[RotorNutFD3S]

Already on it.

[BFH miata]

Well I don't think anyone should be labelling themselves as a supporter or non-suporter, he's the president, not a sports team. Either way implies a bias/slanted view.
I love the double standard that has been established since O was elected. During the last presidency, there were so many cars sporting "F the president" stickers and no one seemed to care. Fast forward a few months and you're ridiculed if you say anything negative towards Obama. Come on folks, he isn’t perfect, far from it.

The bottom line is that OUR government has gone out of control on spending. Your kids (and their kids) are going to have to take on that burden and find a way to pay for it all. At some point, no one is going to loan this country money any more... what are we going to do then?

$1 TRILLION on healthcare?! seriously?

[JennB]

I heard the exact same things about Bush. "You should support him because he's the President"

I don't agree with either. I think you should support who you support and not compromise what you believe in no matter who is in office.

[Spark!Plug]

being unbiased to the rest of the thread..

The 10% and rising unemployment rate is going to be the legacy of his/this presidency. when your kids are watching the History Channel EXTREME, that's what you'll see. of course presidents take on many masks but i think this one might stick with obama, much like chi guviera. there were other presidents much worse with tint villages in the foothills filled with the poor and "shanty towns." will things get that bad? we'll know in 4 years. is it his fault exactly? no. is it his problem? yes. and not even if it got that bad. his presidential sloganism "change" was just a rally cry over the dead. now Biden says they underestimated the acual scope of the u.s. economic problem.. well it all seems for nothing then. The question is; Can Obama stand up to the task of beating the economy's *** for every man's wallet's benifit or not.

I believe he can, but we'll see.

If you want to investigate conspiratory wrong doings, look at the "people." I do not agree in the house being biased with total control over bills being pushed through. the house seats are just too biasedly blue, i propose 50/50. but that would just be too idealic now wouldnt it.

[lazybones]

I heard the exact same things about Bush. "You should support him because he's the President"

I don't agree with either. I think you should support who you support and not compromise what you believe in no matter who is in office.

totally agreed.

[wildfire0310]

I heard the exact same things about Bush. "You should support him because he's the President"

I don't agree with either. I think you should support who you support and not compromise what you believe in no matter who is in office.


I totally agree. Having people that voice their opinion is what this county is made off. Also by voiceing our opinion it a reminder that if he steps to far out of bounds we as the people have the power to impreach his ***.

THis bs that we have to support him. Just look at the Nixon crap.

----my 2cent here----
I wonder how many people support him or get pissed that someone doesn't support him just cause Obama isn't the stand middle aged whiteman.

[metalman]

I wonder how many people support him or get pissed that someone doesn't support him just cause Obama isn't the stand middle aged whiteman.

I think PEOPLE get pissed for all kinds of stupid reasons. Many also support Obama simply because he's of a similar 'color' to them OR their idea that 'its time for a black president'.
Both reasons are stupid.

However, when its all said and done the masses tend to judge presidents primarily on their wallet and perceptions of 'financial security'. Regan is a 'god' to many Americans. That attitude is based primarily on financial perceptions. The fact that he absolutely fvcked Americas future (now) with his anti-energy efficiency and mid east oil dependent policies as well as some serious personal freedom issues goes quietly unmentioned. If people have money or a 'perception' of it they are happy, even if being screwed quietly without lube.

Such is the case with Obama. He is merely trying to maintain the perception yet screwing any future chance of America's sovereign financial stability with his policies. "Change" in his case is absolute bull****. Its the same old crap...ONLY WORSE.

[mustangtomiata]

I love the new Obama car deal! It makes me ROFL big time!!!! :lol: and the house payment plan that fell through.

[Spark!Plug]

i saw a poster at a tea party that said

KEEP YOUR CHANGE
GIVE ME MY TAX DOLLARS

that one seemed to fit it best for me.

I tell you what this has turned into. The racial status quo pushed for Change and Hope getting behind just another head of government. he gets briefed about international affairs, the economic climate of america, its debt, ETC. "ut ohh." I bet he was flabbergasted at where to start and what to do, and has been like that since day one. i dont trust him, he's scared to put his foot down.

The saddest thing is, we had no potential presidents to choose from. and now we got people giving money away while they say it's ran out. they've underestimated the severety of the economic crisis as they promised during the election when all they did was say "i promise to do that for you, if you vote for me!"

when someone with the potential to get things done in an orderly fasion gets in the dem/rep seats, i'll have someone to cheer for. the presidents we had, mcain and obama.. so boring. i'd flip the channel if i could.

[rant/]

[JennB]

during the election when all they did was say "i promise to do that for you, if you vote for me!"




That's kind of how elections go no matter who is running

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/2613/lookie.jpg

Straight up pimpin

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

I gotta say, Sarcozy is hilarious in these pics

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/91761/original.jpg

No shame :lol:

[mustangtomiata]

at least they arent a bunch of fags :lol: and I cant remember where I saw i but there was a picture of a little girl like 6 or 7 maybe holding up a sign that said ATM on it with an arrow pointing down. I thought it got the point across very well.

[JDM88]

Kurt, you're a man with an opinion I respect. But could you elaborate on what policies of changes he's making that are going to set us back in the future? I'm interested to hear your reasoning. All of this is said in sincerity.

[lazybones]

FenderFlaired, I agree. I almost went to a tea party but I couldn't last minute :(

But i love that poster. I'd much rather have my own tax dollars than see some 16 year old trashy girl with a kid using "food stamps" driving a bmw and has a coach bag..

Working at a grocery store..i definitely see this nearly every time i work. No lie. It's so freaking ridiculous.

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

Yeah... because a lot of people on food stamps are cruising around in BMW's with Coach bags. :rolleyes:

I hate seeing money wasted and people taking advantage of a system intended for good, but please don't tar everyone with the same brush. That's just ignorant.

[lazybones]

It's not though. You have no idea. I see so many people buying the most unnecessary things. The ent system is so messed up, our money is going to nothing. Get off your *** and get a job.

[scandmx5]

**** if i was on stamps and gov't asst. it'd be lobster, steak, and skrimps everynight boys!! skip the ramen noodles and hamburger helper thats bankhead food :lol:

[mustangtomiata]

ROFL x2

[lazybones]

**** if i was on stamps and gov't asst. it'd be lobster, steak, and skrimps everynight boys!! skip the ramen noodles and hamburger helper thats bankhead food :lol:

I hate to say this, but EXACTLY. that's exactly what they do. i'm serious.

jack, as a girl i probably notice better than you would if a girl just got her hair done, nails done, etc. getting your hair colored and **** costs wellll over 100 bucks..so tell me, whats a girl in EXTREME dire need of money doing with new highlights? and yes jack, people with food stamps or on medicaid DO drive bmw's and wear coach bags. obviously you take things a little literally, so let me point out i didn't say ALL people on foodstamps. of course there's people out there in need, but how the hell can anyone even distinguish them out anymore from being in need to the morons that are just lazy and need to get off their asses and get a job? the entire system is so screwed up and it's such a waste of money. i see this nearly every single time i work. people spend about 200 bucks with food stamps, and you know what they buy? they buy fried chicken (no joke), popsicles, fruit rollups, an occassional vegie here and there, and so forth. some people screw the veggies and spend the whole damn bill on pure junk. The WIC system is a little better, because you're only allowed to buy certain things with it, like cereal, eggs, milk, cheese. etc. So do not tell me i'm ignorant. I know what i'm talking about.

[scandmx5]

they buy popsicles, fruit rollups,

literally :lmao:

im just curious, beings how you work there you know what they are allowed to spend on and what not, cutting cigs/alcohol/and lottery out of the pic, are they allowed to buy high end meats,seafood,etc.. or is there a limit?

[lazybones]

Yeah they are allowed to buy meats and seafoods, cake from the bakery. So forth. There might be an exception to like lobster legs (which cost like 30 bucks), if i'm correct. they have to pay for things out of the deli out of pocket too, so the fried chick they buy, they're spending the only few dollars they have of crinkled up ones. how logical.

[mustangtomiata]

tough girl, thats really cool. :)

[scandmx5]

: pondersgoingtothewelfarelineonthe1stsoicanhasgoods tuffeverynight:

[metalman]

Kurt, you're a man with an opinion I respect.

Sounds like you need some counseling. :lol:

Seriously though, my comments about Obama policies primarily pertain to one general category...spending. If someone called a financial adviser and said they had 150K in credit card debt, 3 new cars with payments, a boat, a lake house etc etc and were barely making it check to check and sinking further in debt because they had to borrow more each month to make ends meet there is no question what the 'answer' would be. CUT BACK. Eliminate spending. Sell the boat, extra cars, lake house. get rid of credit cards, etc etc. It would hurt their lifestyle BUT be absolutely necessary to get their debts paid and acquire a balance of living that can be maintained reasonably. That would be common sense really.

Simply put, this is where Obama, like some others, is a fail IMHO. Its true that real cuts would inflict some real pain to all of us but you know what? There's just no way around it. The Obama/Pelosi regime so far has primarily demonstrated that their method of dealing with debt and extreme fiscal trouble is to SPEND more, federalize the economy, and add even more expensive programs. This approach temporarily 'stimulates' and temporarily stabilizes fiscal matters where it seems things are 'better' but in truth is only ADDING to the problem...postponing the day of reckoning, making the ultimate 'pain' even worse, perhaps even insurmountable. While Obama has made a few cuts they pale in comparison to spending and the plans for more.

To put it plainly, you cant buy your way out of debt, you must tighten your belt and pay.
Coupled with the sense of entitlement that many Americans have, these spending policies will ultimately lead no where good for all of us in my view.

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

I hate to say this, but EXACTLY. that's exactly what they do. i'm serious.

jack, as a girl i probably notice better than you would if a girl just got her hair done, nails done, etc. getting your hair colored and **** costs wellll over 100 bucks..so tell me, whats a girl in EXTREME dire need of money doing with new highlights? and yes jack, people with food stamps or on medicaid DO drive bmw's and wear coach bags. obviously you take things a little literally, so let me point out i didn't say ALL people on foodstamps. of course there's people out there in need, but how the hell can anyone even distinguish them out anymore from being in need to the morons that are just lazy and need to get off their asses and get a job? the entire system is so screwed up and it's such a waste of money. i see this nearly every single time i work. people spend about 200 bucks with food stamps, and you know what they buy? they buy fried chicken (no joke), popsicles, fruit rollups, an occassional vegie here and there, and so forth. some people screw the veggies and spend the whole damn bill on pure junk. The WIC system is a little better, because you're only allowed to buy certain things with it, like cereal, eggs, milk, cheese. etc. So do not tell me i'm ignorant. I know what i'm talking about.

I would love to see some legitimate stats about how many people collecting food stamps drive premium euro cars and sport premium fashion accessories.

They may waste the money their given and spend more money on nails or hair than someone like yourself. But this is America, where people are allowed to make their own choices even if they are wrong. They aren't using the system correctly but why does that matter? They are given a chance to try and make a go of it, and it's their choice to waste it away.

Driving BMW's and having Coach bags sounds good. So why doesn't everyone get in on this scam? Why? Because these people have no future. They have no light at the end of their tunnel. They are pissing away their opportunity to try and make a real future for themselves. And while it may be frustrating when you're hard at work and seeing them waste money, it will pay dividends. You have a future. You are making the most of what you have and it tends to work out in the long run.

Let's not forget the ridiculous distribution of wealth in this country, where people can still be found starving in some areas. Even if the system does have its flaws, and believe me I'm not saying it's perfect, but for every person who rips it off, there are some people than genuinely need it.

I don't care if there is the occasional system abuse, as long as a starving child somewhere can get a meal and have a little help with a fair crack at life, then it's worth every god damn fake Coach bag on the planet.

Some people rip **** off and will never get anywhere. But there are a few who need it and utilise it, and giving them the opportunity to do it for themselves is well worth the offset.

[matredd]

FenderFlaired, I agree. I almost went to a tea party but I couldn't last minute :(

But i love that poster. I'd much rather have my own tax dollars than see some 16 year old trashy girl with a kid using "food stamps" driving a bmw and has a coach bag..

Working at a grocery store..i definitely see this nearly every time i work. No lie. It's so freaking ridiculous.

She's right. When I was 16 working at Kroger I saw people use the WIC program to get an excessive amount of Milk, Juice, and Cheeses (name brand) then use their food stamps to purchase $150 of nice groceries, and finally $100-200 of alcohol with their own cash. I saw their keys when I scanned their Kroger plus card and often it would be a Lexus, Acura, Cadillac... whatever.

However votes can be bought. People are becoming more and more Dependant on government.

[lazybones]

You make America sound like a third-world country. Starving children? Trust me, they're just fine. Why do you think starving children come to America? Because they know they'll get food. America has so many loop holes great food stamp systems, they know they'll be qualified. And why is it so bad? Because that's OUR money. That's tax-payers money. And hell yeah I'm mad that I work and see people just waltz on in with free money. And don't think I'm selfish by saying that's OUR money. I'm not saying that like "yeah that's my money I could be doing xyz with." I'm saying it in a sense, think of everything we could be doing today for our country. All that money could've gone to finding new sources of oil, for building more parks for these kids you feel so sorry for, building better schools in better areas to help reduce to "ghetto" around here. The system has either got to go, or be extremely revised. But funny, I don't see Obama planning to do anything about it, at least not for awhile. I don't really see this on his priority list. But then again, what is on that list?

[scandmx5]

You make America sound like a third-world country. Starving children? Trust me, they're just fine. Why do you think starving children come to America? Because they know they'll get food. America has so many loop holes great food stamp systems, they know they'll be qualified. And why is it so bad? Because that's OUR money. That's tax-payers money. And hell yeah I'm mad that I work and see people just waltz on in with free money. And don't think I'm selfish by saying that's OUR money. I'm not saying that like "yeah that's my money I could be doing xyz with." I'm saying it in a sense, think of everything we could be doing today for our country. All that money could've gone to finding new sources of oil, for building more parks for these kids you feel so sorry for, building better schools in better areas to help reduce to "ghetto" around here. The system has either got to go, or be extremely revised. But funny, I don't see Obama planning to do anything about it, at least not for awhile. I don't really see this on his priority list. But then again, what is on that list?

+5 for extrememely REVISED, im a cons. rep, but don't think it should be abolished for the fact of retarded, blind, handicap peoples, orphans,etc... the people who really need it and we don't mind helping. im not that concerned with how "LaQuisha and Jerome git day endz"

[mustangtomiata]

spending OUR money :/ how old are you?

[lazybones]

spending OUR money :/ how old are you?

Meaning what? Should I not have included you?

[lazybones]

+5 for extrememely REVISED, im a cons. rep, but don't think it should be abolished for the fact of retarded, blind, handicap peoples, orphans,etc... the people who really need it and we don't mind helping. im not that concerned with how "LaQuisha and Jerome git day endz"


hahahah +10

[metalman]

People are becoming more and more Dependant on government.

True.

Another aspect of this is the sense of 'entitlement' aspect, and not just to social programs.
In my parents generation people had more of a tendency to work hard, save their money, and eventually perhaps purchase a few toys and luxuries. However, in more recent times young people feel entitled to the new car, the latest electronic gadgets, expensive clothing, big home, etc etc at the very start. Some my get upset at me for saying so but this is majorly retarded and is a huge part of whats 'wrong' with modern America. People seem to need 'things' to feel good about themselves, they feel entitled to it and that anything less is not acceptable. Their priorities are warped. Many rationalize that this lifestyle is only the American dream and that all should live it. However they have precious little knowledge that in truth the American dream is one of hard work, sacrifice, self denial...all for a long term payoff, and that often that payoff is not one of riches but one of simple self sufficiency.

[mustangtomiata]

Meaning what? Should I not have included you?


No lol I fully fall into that group and agree with you. I was asking how old you are because you are so well spoken. I have very weird view of the whole government taking money and part of it is that some really wealthy people let the government do it.

[lazybones]

Haha I'm 19

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

You make America sound like a third-world country. Starving children? Trust me, they're just fine.


Well damn that's a bunch off my mind then.

Why do you think starving children come to America? Because they know they'll get food. America has so many loop holes great food stamp systems, they know they'll be qualified. And why is it so bad? Because that's OUR money. That's tax-payers money. And hell yeah I'm mad that I work and see people just waltz on in with free money. And don't think I'm selfish by saying that's OUR money. I'm not saying that like "yeah that's my money I could be doing xyz with." I'm saying it in a sense, think of everything we could be doing today for our country. All that money could've gone to finding new sources of oil, for building more parks for these kids you feel so sorry for, building better schools in better areas to help reduce to "ghetto" around here. The system has either got to go, or be extremely revised. But funny, I don't see Obama planning to do anything about it, at least not for awhile. I don't really see this on his priority list. But then again, what is on that list?

Did I say the system was in good shape? I said quite the opposite. It should be reworked to avoid exploitation but like I said, as long as it genuinely helps out a few then it's still worth it.

You can take any branch of the government and call it wasteful spending because that's just how it is. Money is wasted on lots of ****. Let's look at some of our super advanced and expensive fighter jets which are used for air to air combat with... who exactly? I'm all for defence but I can't help but think a lot of money is lining the pockets of a certain few.

Barack has been in power for a handful of months, what do you think he should have done so far? I haven't seen any major tax increases yet. We haven't all migrated into wooden huts, nothing major has really changed. The economy is still in the ****ter but that isn't going to change overnight either.

I still think he was much the better selection than Mr. McCain. The problems you seem to have with this country are not exclusive to the last 6 months. They've been going on for decades under both Democratic and Republican leadership.

[lazybones]

Yep. But it's funny, all you guys seem to think superhero Obama has done soooo much. What has he done? What? It's been nearly 7 months, and all you ever hear is how presidents should have done this or this within 6 months, but all I've heard is him spending x amount of dollars on date night with his ape wife, or having pizza flown in from new jersey for his pizza party, or wanting to take out the historic bowling alley in the white house in exchange for a basketball court? Like really? Jesus.
Of course money is wasted on lots of ****. But it truly amazes me how people believe Obama is our regular Jesus Christ. Change change change. What change? He's like a little kid in his daddy's office. But hey, I hear they got a puppy. Cooooool!! I mean forget watching the news to find out about America's president, just open up the newest issue of People magazine. Hell, maybe even Cosmo Girl will have a nice little spread on him. And of course the economy is still garbage. I'm not the one that thought our savior Barack Obama was going to fix it. Most of the people who voted for him thought he was going to snap his little fingers and call it a day. He wasn't elected because of his amazing leadership skills, and you and everyone else knows it. I'm not being racist, at all, but if you're honestly going to say he was elected for that and not his skin color, you're sadly mistaken. He's already lost half his original supporters.

[scandmx5]

Yep. But it's funny, all you guys seem to think superhero Obama has done soooo much. What has he done? What? It's been nearly 7 months, and all you ever hear is how presidents should have done this or this within 6 months, but all I've heard is him spending x amount of dollars on date night with his ape wife, or having pizza flown in from new jersey for his pizza party, or wanting to take out the historic bowling alley in the white house in exchange for a basketball court? Like really? Jesus.
Of course money is wasted on lots of ****. But it truly amazes me how people believe Obama is our regular Jesus Christ. Change change change. What change? He's like a little kid in his daddy's office. But hey, I hear they got a puppy. Cooooool!! I mean forget watching the news to find out about America's president, just open up the newest issue of People magazine. Hell, maybe even Cosmo Girl will have a nice little spread on him. And of course the economy is still garbage. I'm not the one that thought our savior Barack Obama was going to fix it. Most of the people who voted for him thought he was going to snap his little fingers and call it a day. He wasn't elected because of his amazing leadership skills, and you and everyone else knows it. I'm not being racist, at all, but if you're honestly going to say he was elected for that and not his skin color, you're sadly mistaken. He's already lost half his original supporters.

watch out now, im the official mx5atl race basher, i have the rep
don't steal my title, ill say it for you-
OBAMA was elected b/c he's black
which is true- it's the only way he won
:lol:
on another note, it's the crazies that make him seem so scary
{i.e. obama youth brigade, obama ss, oabama statue builders, and obama tattoo people i have a thread somewhere ab it}

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

I honestly haven't heard any intelligent person really talk about him in this Jesus like regard. In fact, I hear more people talking about how they're tired of his messiah like status than I do people actually speak him like that. And I don't ever recall saying he's done a lot of big public policy. He's done as much as any other President does in 6 months, and that's a good thing.

He's a master of PR, there's no reason to be angry with that. He's still got a high approval rate and hasn't ****ed up. I don't think he was elected for being black, otherwise we would have had someone else run that campaign previously, it's not as if he's the first intelligent middle class black person to enter politics. He won the election because the Republican party is the most ****ed up it has ever been.

I can guarantee you the amount of time he spends doing these PR things is eclipsed by the time he spends doing the real work. The date thing was ridiculous but mainly because what married couple goes out on a "date??" I don't think you should let yourself get so hung up on the silly little things that go on, because he is doing real work too.

[lazybones]

You REALLY don't think he was elected because he was black?! Please tell me you're kidding. There's videos, you can look up on youtube, I wanna say it's Howard Stern? But I could be mistaken, regardless, there are interviews of him asking black people questions like "How do you feel about Obama's choice of Sarah Palin as his vice presidential candidate?" And of course they're all like "Oh yeyeah! It's awesome. She's a good choice." blah blah blah. This is probably the most black people have voted in an election. He was completely elected because of his skin color. And the funny thing is, is he's not even really "black." His black daddy ran off when he was a kid, so he's been raised by his white mom. So the fact that he was elected for his skin color is even that much more ridiculous.

[scandmx5]

my favorite-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4Hj0brc1V4

[lazybones]

hahahaha NICE

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

You REALLY don't think he was elected because he was black?! Please tell me you're kidding. There's videos, you can look up on youtube, I wanna say it's Howard Stern? But I could be mistaken, regardless, there are interviews of him asking black people questions like "How do you feel about Obama's choice of Sarah Palin as his vice presidential candidate?" And of course they're all like "Oh yeyeah! It's awesome. She's a good choice." blah blah blah. This is probably the most black people have voted in an election. He was completely elected because of his skin color. And the funny thing is, is he's not even really "black." His black daddy ran off when he was a kid, so he's been raised by his white mom. So the fact that he was elected for his skin color is even that much more ridiculous.

How many of them do you think even voted? To equate for the dumb people who voted because he's black, how many do you think voted against him because he's black? It evens out.

Don't forget how many white people also voted for him. You do the man a great disservice if you really think it's just because he's black that he got there.

[lazybones]

Aw a great disservice to Obama? That's awful. Wouldn't wanna do that...

[scandmx5]

How many of them do you think even voted? To equate for the dumb people who voted because he's black, how many do you think voted against him because he's black? It evens out.

Don't forget how many white people also voted for him. You do the man a great disservice if you really think it's just because he's black that he got there.

don't forget old boy, those people got to vote multiple times for him thanks to our friends at ACORN, us that voted against him didn't have ACORN so one vote per person FTL!! :lol:

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

With the margin he won by it wouldn't have made much difference.

[mustangtomiata]

I can't wait for all my useful out door skills to come in handy when no one has any money left to go to the grocery with.

[lance]

[QUOTE=Jack-MX5ATLanta.com;58131]

Let's not forget the ridiculous distribution of wealth in this country, where people can still be found starving in some areas. Even if the system does have its flaws, and believe me I'm not saying it's perfect, but for every person who rips it off, there are some people than genuinely need it.



I love the concept (largely being pushed by the Obama type crowd) that wealth is "distributed" and not earned

We know you earned your money by getting an education, working hard, and busting your butt for 30 plus years, but we in the government have decided that this is not "fair" and we are going to take a major portion of it and "re-distribute" it to the folks that decided an education and hard work were for other people and not them.

I also love the concept of the "working family" after you and your spouse work hard and cross a certain financial number (currently $250k a year combined) you are no longer a "working family" no matter how many hours you work. You are not even considered successful for this effort, you are now the "evil rich" and should be taxed to the extent that 5% of the poplulation pays 60% of the taxes.

Cut it any way you like, this whole "redistribution of wealth" concept is pure socialism.

[metalman]

[QUOTE=Jack-MX5ATLanta.com;58131]

I love the concept (largely being pushed by the Obama type crowd) that wealth is "distributed" and not earned

We know you earned your money by getting an education, working hard, and busting your butt for 30 plus years, but we in the government have decided that this is not "fair" and we are going to take a major portion of it and "re-distribute" it to the folks that decided an education and hard work were for other people and not them.

I also love the concept of the "working family" after you and your spouse work hard and cross a certain financial number (currently $250k a year combined) you are no longer a "working family" no matter how many hours you work. You are not even considered successful for this effort, you are now the "evil rich" and should be taxed to the extent that 5% of the poplulation pays 60% of the taxes.

Cut it any way you like, this whole "redistribution of wealth" concept is pure socialism.

I have to agree. This also goes along with what I said about entitlement & priorities.
People feel entitled to the fruits of others self denial, sacrifice, and labor
all without putting forth much or any of their own.
And certain factions of government lead them to think this 'redistribution' concept
is an answer to poverty. Bluntly speaking, many people live hand to mouth because theyre too lazy or stupid to do otherwise. Even if you gave them millions they would simply end up back where they are in short order. Those in that situation with the right priorities can work
themselves out of it, and many have proven this over and over, but there's the rub, many people now days feel they should start out in life with wealth equal or exceeding those before them that worked their entire life for it.
No sacrifice, no self denial, no hard work, the government should just 'provide' the lifestyle they want under the guise of the 'American Dream'.

The mentality of living on things borrowed is also at the root of our problem.
Individuals buy expensive cars, homes, and the like all because they feel they have the income to cover the payments.
The government follows this same destructive pattern. Fact is, just because your income is deemed 'sufficient' to make the payments on that Bimmer doesnt mean its a smart idea to buy it. On the contrary, your priorities may actually be askew. 'Living within your means' does not mean using the majority of your means to make payments.

[mustangtomiata]

[quote=lance;58271]

I have to agree. This also goes along with what I said about entitlement & priorities.
People feel entitled to the fruits of others self denial, sacrifice, and labor
all without putting forth much or any of their own.
And certain factions of government lead them to think this 'redistribution' concept
is an answer to poverty. Bluntly speaking, many people live hand to mouth because theyre too lazy or stupid to do otherwise. Even if you gave them millions they would simply end up back where they are in short order. Those in that situation with the right priorities can work
themselves out of it, and many have proven this over and over, but there's the rub, many people now days feel they should start out in life with wealth equal or exceeding those before them that worked their entire life for it.
No sacrifice, no self denial, no hard work, the government should just 'provide' the lifestyle they want under the guise of the 'American Dream'.

The mentality of living on things borrowed is also at the root of our problem.
Individuals buy expensive cars, homes, and the like all because they feel they have the income to cover the payments.
The government follows this same destructive pattern. Fact is, just because your income is deemed 'sufficient' to make the payments on that Bimmer doesnt mean its a smart idea to buy it. On the contrary, your priorities may actually be askew. 'Living within your means' does not mean using the majority of your means to make payments.


People have gotten extremely irressonsible with money because now the government is paying for your debt which puts us all in debt instead of teaching that person a lesson about money management. For instance the things the car companies are doing about losing your job "And if you lose your job we will cover your car payments for x months" you yourself had to declare bankruptcy how in the hell can you afford to make their car payments while they still drive them. If the person is not financially secure enough to buy and a new car and they know it's going to push them to the edge of their money then freakin wait for better times or til you have more. When I turned 18 I recieved probably 10 credit card applications from card companies and I just ripped them up because I know what would happen and i don't have a steady income to pay back what I would use with it and guess what I'M FINE. Sure I didn't get to turbo my car the next month but hey I don't owe anyone 7 or 8000 thousand dollars. People need to get back to the concept CASH and get themselves out of this whole I can afford the payment on it but not the vehicle itself. Minus houses, if you can't pay for it in three years then you don't even need to consider it. I have a friend that looks extremely wealthy except for one day when he needed 35 dollars for something and didn't have it so he asked his parents and they couldn't give it to him because the bills had come in that day and guess what, they had to make all their payments. I kid you not I think there was 8 bills other than water, gas and electricity. Both my parents rarely will take a loan and the only bills we get are utilities and house payment. And they didn't make a huge amount of money each year they just manage extremely well, like Kurt says work hard now for the pay off later.


/rant

[lazybones]

Work hard, play hard.
No in-between food stamp reliability.

[mustangtomiata]

Work hard, play hard.
No in-between food stamp reliability.


end thread, marry me? haha jp

[Spark!Plug]

It's a very long story.. but I'm on permanent disability.. even got EBT food stamps.

But, I do agree with the viewpoints in this thread... I see women with gucci bags, wearin office/cubical work clothes, driving a 2 year old car in the social security offices ignorantly *****ing about why they're not going to get their self entitled bennefits. I see plenty of people who deserve it in those offices, and i surely see people who are looking for a hand-out like its an unemployment office.

i dont really wanna elaborate much more about my situation, it would be a book.

[lazybones]

No need to explain, if you need it, that's what it's for! I'm just sick of morons abusing it. That's been my argument all along

[MoD_Scotty]

That's the ****ty part...there are a lot of people that really deserve the "handouts" from the government. Maybe "deserve" is the wrong word to use, but basically, I think there are a lot of people that are worthy of it.

One example: every member of the military who completes their enlistment contract (via an honorable or medical discharge...and maybe other types of discharges, I'm not 100% sure), is entitled to 6 months of unemployment benefits. Speaking from experience, I can honestly say that it is often REALLY hard to find work in the last few months you're in the military. Especially if you have a job who's skill set doesn't directly translate to a civilian job...like INFANTRY.

I understand there will always be people who "abuse" the system. I just hate the generalizations that are made when people ***** about the system in general. Instead of hating on the entire system, maybe trying to find a way to make the system work better would be more productive. Voting, writing letters/emails or calling elected officials, or seeking office...no matter how seemingly insignificant a position...are all good methods.

[JDM88]

Agreed Scotty.

[lazybones]

Ha. Yeahhhh... Let me just go write a letter then. So glad you know how to fix this country's problems!

[MoD_Scotty]

Ha. Yeahhhh... Let me just go write a letter then. So glad you know how to fix this country's problems!

Well, I did get a degree in Political Science ;)

[lazybones]

Super. So it took you a political science degree to learn to write letters? Just messing with ya ;)

[MoD_Scotty]

No, it took a political science degree to teach me how to argue over the internet ;)

[lazybones]

Wow, did you not know how to do that before?

[MoD_Scotty]

Nope, there wasn't an internet before I started college. Al Gore hadn't invented it yet.

[lazybones]

Hahah :)

[Bernie]

http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo331/ftomb/reagandt6.jpg

/thread

[lazybones]

http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo331/ftomb/reagandt6.jpg

/thread

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :lol:

[lance]

Nope, there wasn't an internet before I started college. Al Gore hadn't invented it yet.

Hell, there wasn't a calculator before I started college:lol:

[RotorNutFD3S]

Abacus right? :p

[mustangtomiata]

Abacus right? :p


No...before the abacus, fingers.

[scandmx5]

well i saw lawguy85 post earlier when i was on my mobile. i know how much he adores obama. i know jester, kurt, and i already went around with him politically, so im waiting for him to chime in.
Lazybones Vs. Lawguy85
i would pay full price tickets for that showdown

[caseyfoster]

http://images.barnesandnoble.com/images/27140000/27149662.jpg

[mustangtomiata]

well i saw lawguy85 post earlier when i was on my mobile. i know how much he adores obama. i know jester, kurt, and i already went around with him politically, so im waiting for him to chime in.
Lazybones Vs. Lawguy85
i would pay full price tickets for that showdown


Yeah I remembered that, I think me may have scared him off with that.

[Jack-MX5ATLanta.com]

I don't get the impression he's an easily scared off person.

[LagunaJames]

lmao@scotty and lazybones.... you two are a riot

[lawguy85]

Yeah I remembered that, I think me may have scared him off with that.

The definition of insanity, doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different result. I really don't see a point in internet arguing with people I don't know when the other side refuses to concede any part of their argument. Shouting at a brick wall doesn't make that wall any smarter or less dense, it just makes you an idiot. Shouting at the internet equivalent of the Great Wall of China is tiring, not scary in the least.

[lazybones]

Moral of the day? Or were you just reading a really long fortune cookie.